Sump design question

[Heltyman]

Hello everyone. I am new to this hobby and I am going to build my own sump.
I am thinking on a design like the image posted below, where the water flow has a 180 degree turn...



My question would be if anyone has any knowledge on this and would it work well?
Thank you in advanced!!

 

[blaxsun]

It might be worth looking into a prebuilt sump (if only to get some ideas on how they do it). There's a few things you're missing:

* Tray for filter socks or fleece roller
* Skimmer and refugium may be swapped
* ATO is separate and ties-in with return chamber
* Sponge/baffle chamber prior to return chamber

 

[Heltyman]

Hello everyone. I am new to this hobby and I am going to build my own sump.
I am thinking on a design like the image posted below, where the water flow has a 180 degree turn...



My question would be if anyone has any knowledge on this and would it work well?
Thank you in advanced!!

Sorry, I forget to say: the image above is a top view

 

[Ly78]

Its almost like the redsea tanks sump except theres no ats chamber.

 

[Fernthereefer]

I actually have my set up in that order (skimmer-refugium-display). Although not a single sump, just a separate refugium running from the main return line).

There are different schools of thought in that regard. The Triton method stating to add the refugium BEFORE, while many hobbyists have had success with adding the refugium after.

FAQ #29: Should I run my protein skimmer before or after my refugium?

Today on BRStv, we have another episode of BRS 52 FAQ where we answer all of your frequently asked reefing questions from our popular 52 Weeks of Reefing series. This week we are answering Raees Usman's question: "In a sump, which one should come first the skimmer or refugium?" I believe the...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

 

[Onewolf]

What is ATS? Are there any skimmers that will fit in your skimmer chamber?

 

[Joe31415]

That's 13.7 x 23.6 in freedom units (inches).
I don't think any of those chambers are going to be nearly big enough and I think you'll be kicking yourself down the road.
For example, where are you going to find a skimmer with a 6x8ish footprint.
On the assumption that ATS is an ATO reservoir, get it out of there. Just get a bucket and a dedicated ATO pump/controller.

And, in fact, before you start cutting or gluing anything . Pick out the skimmer you want so you can make sure, at the very least, that the one you have will fit. Keeping in mind that A)you may want to upgrade at some point and B)you have to be able to get it in and out. If there's not a lot of clearence between the skimmer and the chamber walls, it'll have to be lifted straight out which may or may not be possible if the sump is under the tank. If the skimmer chamber is as wide as the sump, you can tilt it as you lift it.

 

[Heltyman]

What is ATS? Are there any skimmers that will fit in your skimmer chamber?

ATS is Algae turf scrubber.
I am thinking on getting the Mantis Tornado 150 with 6x8 inches...

 

[Weasel1960]

I actually have my set up in that order (skimmer-refugium-display). Although not a single sump, just a separate refugium running from the main return line).

There are different schools of thought in that regard. The Triton method stating to add the refugium BEFORE, while many hobbyists have had success with adding the refugium after.

FAQ #29: Should I run my protein skimmer before or after my refugium?

Today on BRStv, we have another episode of BRS 52 FAQ where we answer all of your frequently asked reefing questions from our popular 52 Weeks of Reefing series. This week we are answering Raees Usman's question: "In a sump, which one should come first the skimmer or refugium?" I believe the...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

Actually BRS reviewed all 52 weeks during this past week and I think in one of them they indicated refugium after skimmer to keep that chamber cleaner from solid waste.

 

[Weasel1960]

So why would you have an ATS and refugium. Won’t all your nutrient export be happening in the ATS first? I would think your refugium would starve. Assuming you are putting cheato in the refugium.

 

[Heltyman]

So why would you have an ATS and refugium. Won’t all your nutrient export be happening in the ATS first? I would think your refugium would starve. Assuming you are putting cheato in the refugium.

Thank for you response!
Yes that's true... But in the refugium I am thinking in put only a sand bed and live rock... Would that be wrong?

 

[Weasel1960]

Thank for you response!
Yes that's true... But in the refugium I am thinking in put only a sand bed and live rock... Would that be wrong?

No, not wrong. From what I have been reading lots of different ways to do it.

 

[Heltyman]

That's 13.7 x 23.6 in freedom units (inches).
I don't think any of those chambers are going to be nearly big enough and I think you'll be kicking yourself down the road.
For example, where are you going to find a skimmer with a 6x8ish footprint.
On the assumption that ATS is an ATO reservoir, get it out of there. Just get a bucket and a dedicated ATO pump/controller.

And, in fact, before you start cutting or gluing anything . Pick out the skimmer you want so you can make sure, at the very least, that the one you have will fit. Keeping in mind that A)you may want to upgrade at some point and B)you have to be able to get it in and out. If there's not a lot of clearence between the skimmer and the chamber walls, it'll have to be lifted straight out which may or may not be possible if the sump is under the tank. If the skimmer chamber is as wide as the sump, you can tilt it as you lift it.

Hi thanks for the response.
Sorry, ATS is for Algae Turf Scrubber...
I am planning on getting the skimmer Mantis Tornado 150 which is about 6x8 inches... Would that be too thight?

 

[X-37B]

If running an ATS no need for a fuge.
Also look at a baffle free sump.
I run both of mine that way and its super easy to service.
Filter sock, skimmer, media reactor, and carx.
Flow in a sump will go from drain to return. No need for complicated flow in a sump or sand. Use a powerhead if you need to.

 

[Bruce60]

Hello everyone. I am new to this hobby and I am going to build my own sump.
I am thinking on a design like the image posted below, where the water flow has a 180 degree turn...



My question would be if anyone has any knowledge on this and would it work well?
Thank you in advanced!!

The first thing I would like to know is the volume of your display. This will help guide whether or not the total volume of the sump is sufficient for the system. This means that when the power or main pump fails that the sump can contain the volume of water from the display tank that will end up in the sump (typically down to the bottom of the overflow in the display). You also have to size the return pump to prevent the return chamber from running dry, which is a function of the chamber size and flow through the sump.

My primary concern about building your own sump with this design is how the chamber walls are going to be supported against the flow forces that will be applied across them. This is especially true since you have some dividers that will be partially supported by other divider walls and not the walls of the sump itself. I especially see the point where the four chambers meet as a potential failure point. Materials will also play a role. Bonding glass and plastic pieces is not as strong as bonding the same materials.

The other thought is the number and order of the chambers. In the current configuration I am concerned there are no nutrients left for the refugium or media chamber. Not sure you will need all these chambers in the end. Not sure if you have flexibility in where water comes in and out but here are a couple of alternatives.

One, from the Drain chamber split the flow into either the ATS or skimmer/fuge and then both flow into the return. It takes some reconfiguration but give you the ability to control relative flow between the two.

Two, split the drain from the display to feed the fuge separately at a lower flow from the skimmer/ATS, the back to a common return.

 

[Heltyman]

The first thing I would like to know is the volume of your display. This will help guide whether or not the total volume of the sump is sufficient for the system. This means that when the power or main pump fails that the sump can contain the volume of water from the display tank that will end up in the sump (typically down to the bottom of the overflow in the display). You also have to size the return pump to prevent the return chamber from running dry, which is a function of the chamber size and flow through the sump.

My primary concern about building your own sump with this design is how the chamber walls are going to be supported against the flow forces that will be applied across them. This is especially true since you have some dividers that will be partially supported by other divider walls and not the walls of the sump itself. I especially see the point where the four chambers meet as a potential failure point. Materials will also play a role. Bonding glass and plastic pieces is not as strong as bonding the same materials.

The other thought is the number and order of the chambers. In the current configuration I am concerned there are no nutrients left for the refugium or media chamber. Not sure you will need all these chambers in the end. Not sure if you have flexibility in where water comes in and out but here are a couple of alternatives.

One, from the Drain chamber split the flow into either the ATS or skimmer/fuge and then both flow into the return. It takes some reconfiguration but give you the ability to control relative flow between the two.

Two, split the drain from the display to feed the fuge separately at a lower flow from the skimmer/ATS, the back to a common return.

Thank you for your great response!

My display will have 80x40x40 cm (about 35g total volume).

Yes, I also have that same concern with the chamber walls.
If I decide to go forward with this design, I will use glass as the material for the 5 dividers I will need (1 horizontal and 4 vertical) and the sump is also made from glass.

Thank you for the alternatives suggested. I will analizye them carefully...