Sump & Refugium Insulation

[pboutin]

I was thinking to save energy to use a type of styrofoam to insulate my custom sump and refugium. My filtration is located in my garage where I see huge temp swings from summer to winter. In the winter I have a huge inline pond heater and in the summer I run a chiller. The room temperature is never ideal for the system as I'm always fighting it. My Idea was to insulate the tanks with some 1 inch thick styrofoam especially between the chiller and sump wall.

Has anyone ever attempted this and what was your experience? Any advice or thoughts welcome.

 

[Mebeknob]

I was thinking to save energy to use a type of styrofoam to insulate my custom sump and refugium. My filtration is located in my garage where I see huge temp swings from summer to winter. In the winter I have a huge inline pond heater and in the summer I run a chiller. The room temperature is never ideal for the system as I'm always fighting it. My Idea was to insulate the tanks with some 1 inch thick styrofoam especially between the chiller and sump wall.

Has anyone ever attempted this and what was your experience? Any advice or thoughts welcome.

I haven't done this...yet. looking to do the same soon, but here are my useless engineering 2 cents.
Have you insulated your garage door yet? If not I'd do that first.
If you're going to run a chiller (is it vented to outside?), then insulation will be a good idea! You can get a sheet of insulation at HD along with aluminum tape. You can even insulate your plumbing ( with a cut pool noodle even!) to reduce heat loss there. You can also cut the foam to make a good sump lid.
Without a chiller insulation will only reduce temp swings, but eventually everything in the garage will reach the same temp... so I probably wouldn't do it without a chiller/heater.

 

[pboutin]

Have you insulated your garage door yet? If not I'd do that first.

OK so "garage" is a loose term when applied to my setup. Its physically in the "garage space" but in its own insulated fish room. However in the warmer months I keep the door open into the garage as the heat build up in the fish room can get very hot, around 90º when the chiller is running. I have fans attempting to move air around but have not yet vented the room.

If you're going to run a chiller (is it vented to outside?), then insulation will be a good idea!

I have a chiller, not vented. My thought was to insulate the tanks from the heat of the room/chiller in hope to reduce the amount of time the chiller needs to run... there by reducing the heat in the room.

 

[Mebeknob]

OK so "garage" is a loose term when applied to my setup. Its physically in the "garage space" but in its own insulated fish room. However in the warmer months I keep the door open into the garage as the heat build up in the fish room can get very hot, around 90º when the chiller is running. I have fans attempting to move air around but have not yet vented the room.
I have a chiller, not vented. My thought was to insulate the tanks from the heat of the room/chiller in hope to reduce the amount of time the chiller needs to run... there by reducing the heat in the room.

I would first spend the time and $ venting that chiller.
What you're wanting to accomplish with the insulation won't really work unless that chiller is vented. I.e. (Hot tank then chiller on. Chiller makes room hot which makes tank hot which turns on chiller which makes room hot....)
If you just consider over time what will happen... at some point everything in that room will reach an equilibrium temp regardless of insulation. If that chiller makes the water cold but the room stays above your target water temp... the chiller might never turnoff (burnout).

Is venting possible?

 

[pboutin]

I would first spend the time and $ venting that chiller. Is venting possible?

Yeah so possible options for venting.

1. Move the chiller outside - would need waterproofing and electrical work not to mention the winters here in CT.
2. Move the chiller to the outside of the room (in the garage) - still not "Vented" but could be possible to have it near a window.
3. Fans - vent the room with vent fans for intake and exhaust placing the exhaust near the chiller. Not a lot of space around the chiller for vent piping.
4. Ditch the Chiller - install a portable air conditioner to the room, vented outside the house. Still no fresh air for CO2 / O2 exchange.

 

[Mebeknob]

Move the chiller to the outside of the room (in the garage) - still not "Vented" but could be possible to have it near a window.

Id try this first simply cause it seems the cheapest. If it doesn't cost money see if moving the chiller outside the room makes a difference.

 

[Mebeknob]

Yeah so possible options for venting.

1. Ditch the Chiller - install a portable air conditioner to the room, vented outside the house. Still no fresh air for CO2 / O2 exchange.

This might be my top choice of $ wasn't a choice. Plus it'll make it more bearable to be in the room this way.

Are there windows in this room?
Attic above?
Basement below?

 

[Mebeknob]

Does the room temp drop below 80 at night?

 

[pboutin]

This might be my top choice of $ wasn't a choice. Plus it'll make it more bearable to be in the room this way.

Are there windows in this room?
Attic above?
Basement below?

No windows and in basement / walkout level with garage

Does the room temp drop below 80 at night?

room temp in summer is anywhere between 78 and 92 deg depends on outside temps and tank temp. Winter time the room stays around ~72 heated only by tank water temp. Not much change between night and day in the winter but summer it may drop temps by about 5 or so deg but again depending on outside temps.

 

[Mebeknob]

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I was thinking that if the temp at night drops enough, the insulation on the tank will slow down its rise in temperature during the day. In other words, it might get you through the peak heat during the day. But if the room temp is always above 80 (or whatever you want your max water temp to be) then you’d have to do more than insulation.

Maybe move the chiller out of the room and insulate the tanks.

 

[prsnlty]

I would go with #4. A window unit has a small amount of venting but you could run an outside airline to your skimmer intake. Or a small computer fan or similar to blow fresh air in - in the wall that you can close or cover in the winter.

 

[pboutin]

I would go with #4. A window unit has a small amount of venting but you could run an outside airline to your skimmer intake. Or a small computer fan or similar to blow fresh air in - in the wall that you can close or cover in the winter.

I think I'm going to go with a portable AC unit punching a hole in the wall as well as venting my skimmer intake.

I'll add some insulation to the sump for the winter months and see what I can do about CO2 / Oxygen exchange during the winter, other than the CO2 scrubber.

 

[prsnlty]

Sounds like a good plan

 

[Mebeknob]

I think I'm going to go with a portable AC unit punching a hole in the wall as well as venting my skimmer intake.

I'll add some insulation to the sump for the winter months and see what I can do about CO2 / Oxygen exchange during the winter, other than the CO2 scrubber.

Daddy like

 

[pboutin]

So I vented the Skimmer to the outside. I used 1/2in vinyl tubing over to the wall then hard pvc through the wall. On the outside I used a "T" into two half threaded elbows and then 1/2 barbs to the vinyl tubing so I could connect two charcoal filters in case the skimmer sucks up some pesticides. I used these... Carbon Cartridge Bowl Filters

In order to add a portable air conditioner I had to first make room for it.


I moved my RO and Salt mixing containers to the back wall. You can see the unpainted section of concrete at the back that shows where they were. This opened up wall space to drill the hole. I then built a shelf to put it on so it would not be in the way with the flex hose on the floor in front of my RO spigot.

Once installed It's at the perfect height and centered in the room so it can cool evenly. Also the Unit I got has a built in dehumidifier which I will pipe the drain out of the house as well. Turned out well!

 

[Mebeknob]

So have you noticed a big difference??

 

[pboutin]

So have you noticed a big difference??

LOL was that a joke? It's a world of difference. I accidentally left the AC on dehumidify at a low temp like 62 deg overnight as I was making water and there's always lots of humidity when I'm doing that. I walked in this morning and it was cold in there. The water temp had dropped to 76 and I had to turn on the water heater. I now have it set to 78 deg. I disconnected the Chiller altogether, I now have a 1/4 JBJ Chiller to sell.

 

[Mebeknob]

Awesome! I'd be curious to see if it's cheaper, electricity consumption wise, with this setup over time. Even if its the same or more expensive... it's probably more comfortable to be in there now.

How much are those little AC units?

I wonder if the water runoff from the dehumidifier is clean enough to use as ATO water?

 

[pboutin]

Awesome! I'd be curious to see if it's cheaper, electricity consumption wise, with this setup over time. Even if it's the same or more expensive... it's probably more comfortable to be in there now.

It's much more comfortable now. I was able to turn off the fans so I can hear and close the door. My bet is it will be cheaper and more efficient as the chiller was just competing with the growing room temps.

How much are those little AC units?

I paid $125 for this one 8k btu's its the smallest one available in a portable. I got it at Ocean State Job Lot

I wonder if the water runoff from the dehumidifier is clean enough to use as ATO water?

I always wondered this... I should do some tests on it. That's how a water distiller works.