Super Slow Growth

[PaulKreider]

So what causes super slow SPS growth, I've come to notice my pieces grow nowhere near as fast as most people, besides my green slimmer...

I get amazing color, but for a 1 inch frag to grow into a mini colony takes me nearly a year... And I have had some frags that never grew... Looked great but never grew.

So what causes slow growth?

I Don't have STNing issues or burnt tips or anything, just super, super, super, slow growth..

 

[stylaster]

Well start with the basics, whats your water parameters and are they stable? What kind of lighting, where is coral placed in relation to lights. What is your flow like? Do you feed your tank some sort of coral food?

 

[ritter6788]

Using any phosphate removers?

 

[PaulKreider]

Params-
Salinity-1.024
ph-8
Phos- 0.15ppm (API)
Calc- 460
alk- 9.8
nitrates- Undetected(api)


I just started using phosguard again since I had some high phosphates. But it seems my sps always grows slow, everything else is super fast, zoas, lps ect.

Lighting- 14 Royal blue 3w, 4 blue 3w, 6 cool white 3w

Flow, 2 1050 Hydors on smartwave controller.

 

[PaulKreider]

I don't use any coral food, and the sps is all over, top, middle bottom, everywhere.

 

[ritter6788]

Any algae issues? Cleaning the glass a lot? Reason I ask is the API isn't low enough to measure salt water phosphates. If you're getting a reading with the API then it's likely too high.

Do you have a sand bed? Skimmer?

 

[Gauge]

Check your magnesium, I bet it's around 1000-1100

 

[PaulKreider]

I've never checked mag, Il get on that.

And no algae issues at all, I clean the glass every 3-4 days and its never too bad.

Yes to sand bed and skimmer.

I havn't had algae issues in over a year, I figured I had high phosphates though, that's why im using phosguard now.

 

[ritter6788]

Is it a deep sand bed and do you vacuum it? What salt are you using and are you dosing anything? Sorry for all the questions. Just thinking out loud here.

 

[Steviereefs]

Is it a deep sand bed and do you vacuum it? What salt are you using and are you dosing anything? Sorry for all the questions. Just thinking out loud here.

If you don't mind could you collaborate with the vacuum sand bed comment? Thanks ritter!!

 

[PaulKreider]

I've been on here long enough lol I should have posted all this to begin with,

Shallow sand bed 1 1/2-2 inches

Instant ocean salt (reef flakes)

Kent Marine essential elements

Was using an alk booster for a while and amino acid supplement.

 

[PaulKreider]

I don't vacume the sand bed.

 

[ritter6788]

I've been on here long enough lol I should have posted all this to begin with,

Shallow sand bed 1 1/2-2 inches

Instant ocean salt (reef flakes)

Kent Marine essential elements

Was using an alk booster for a while and amino acid supplement.

I'd vacuum the sand when doing water changes,

"Instant ocean salt (reef flakes)" Reef Crystals?

I would stop with the essential elements, alk booster (what exactly are you using?) and amino acids. (Test often for alk but only dose if needed).

Are using RO/DI water with zero TDS?

 

[ritter6788]

If you don't mind could you collaborate with the vacuum sand bed comment? Thanks ritter!!

Just personal experience. My tank had a 2-3 inch sandbed and I never vacuumed it. I always had slow sps growth. After vacuuming the sand during water changes I got better growth. After removing the sand altogether the growth really took off.

 

[Eckolancer]

I agree no sand bed rapid growth compared to my old tanks with DSB

 

[Koaboy]

My SPS and LPS always gre well, but really took off when I went from T5's to the Hydra 52's. Another thread, someone attributed the faster growth to the Violet and UV lights in the Hydra 52's.

 

[TJ's Reef]

Sand bed = no/slow SPS growth = ARE YOU KIDDING ME ??? I have a 1-3" fine sand bed in a ultra high bio-laod system that I never vacuum and have INCREDIBLE CORAL GROWTH. If you want stunted dull colored SPS, LPS, Softies, Z's & P's STARVE THEM OF NUTRIENTS in a low bio-load Bare Bottom under fed system. I do not get perpetuating these unfounded myths and can absolutely guarantee you that having a sand bed has no negative impacts on your coral and only a lack of understanding or husbandry practices is the real issue. Corals grown out in nearly sterile conditions are fragile and not healthy, they lack the thick strong flesh and quantity of supporting sybiotic algae of their nutrient exposed counterparts. IMHO this why there are so many issues with the Coral Chop-Shop Vendors out there, does not take much added stress to kill off a weakened Coral with no reserves to begin with. Without Ammonia, Nitrate and Phosphate present NONE OF YOUR CORAL WOULD SURVIVE VERY LONG, this is the facts.

Sorry for my less than pleasant response here, but have been sick for nearly two weeks and have little patience for nonsense.

Cheers, Todd

 

[ritter6788]

Congrats on your success Todd.


My question wasn't to imply that a sand bed=slow sps growth. A sand bed full of sludge can and does slow sps growth and that's why I asked the question if there was a sand bed or not. I've never seen the guy's tank. I'm not spouting myths and lack of sand doesn't equal a sterile system. Not sure what the OP's question has to do with chop shop vendors.

Since you have it figured out what is the real issue with his growth?

 

[TJ's Reef]

Gabe, Paul and others, I do apologize for my abrupt comments above and certainly do not imply that I know everything or have it all figured out. After reading a very similar thread on another forum earlier and having just spoken with a new to the hobby local Club member who had just removed all of his expensive sand bed because of someone 'in the know' telling him that 'that's your problem, the sand is killing your new corals' When the truth was, his tank is not ready for Coral or the dosing this person had him doing either. My whole point was/is that unless your heavily over feeding and using a crushed coral bed without a good CUC that traps excessive amounts of detritus 'The Sand Bed' should not even be in the top 10 reasons one should look for fault. Looking over Paul's postings I see what to me looks like the most obvious factor out of norm to be lighting or lack there of. If this is a std 55g 48x12x22 and only using 24 3w emitters for a total max of 72 watts if ran at 100%. Looking at the avatar cannot tell if this total number of LED's is spread out over the two fixtures or that each one contains 24. Adding more to the overall spectrum would help a little but just blue and white will grow coral fine. I do not see that there is an excess nutrient issue going on although would be curious to exact numbers on Nitrate, Phosphate and Mg. with a quality test kit. Also what exact species of Corals are growing so slowly, normally fast growing Montipora and Seriatopora species?
My comments on Coral Chop Shops was a little out there or abstract but again point was to bring up the fact that our Corals (symbiotic algae within) need nutrients to live and grow. Obviously, I hope by now that we all know these nutrients cannot be at toxic levels but must be present and are at the very bottom of the food chain thus very necessary.

As Reefkeepers we are in charge of a very fine balancing act within our systems with their lives at stake, I wish there was an easier or more simplified explanation to help everyone figure this out. Having a strong Biology background has helped me immensely but more than that it has been the 40+ years of keeping aquariums, 32 years of Reefkeeping with all the trials and tribulations that came with.
Paul, I'll take a read through of your build thread to get a better/bigger picture of what all is going on and post any suggestions if I have there.

Cheers, Todd

 

[stylaster]

Just as a counter point you can have a successful and beautiful reef without running a sand bed too. The biggest thing is keeping the water parameters where they need to be. Case in point i run a bare bottom tank that is full of beautiful SPS without any issue. I do keep close tabs on the water chemistry though. I also feed my fish twice a day and use a dry coral food mix that is mixed in with the fish food.