switching from 2 part to kalk.

mjr · Jun 27, 2014

I do not like the evaporation method. Would much rather drip a constant rate.

How would I go about determining daily consumption? Are you referring to alk consumption or kalk consumption?

b_rad_G · Jun 27, 2014

Alk consumption. Take your system volume and daily consumption say your consumption is 1 dkh and u keep your tank at 8 dkh. Plug in 7 dkh and 8 dkh and find saturated kalk on the chart and it will tell u exactly how much saturated limewater to dose.

Reef Chemistry Calculator

b_rad_G · Jun 27, 2014

As a quick reference I just did 1 dkh on a 100g system and I would need .87 us gallons to maintain the consumption. This calculator is actually showing you how much it needs to raise the dkh level but can also be used in a reverse engineering type way to keep levels stable.

mjr · Jun 27, 2014

OK. I know my alk consumption to be roughly 2 - 2.5 dkh a day.

mcarroll · Jun 27, 2014

mjr said:
OK. I know my alk consumption to be roughly 2 - 2.5 dkh a day.

Great! You need to know that regardless of the mechanism you choose to get the kalk into the tank.

Don't be misled - an ATO is a fine and well-tested mechanism for adding kalk. You would be among a large and successful bunch of reefkeepers in doing so. ;) If you have a separate dosing pump and want to use it, that's fine too, but it truly doesn't buy you a lot more unless you have an unusual situation.

To be specific, if you have and use HVAC in your house, your evaporation rate will be very consistent on a weekly basis.

In detail, during the in-between seasons when the weather is particularly mild your HVAC won't run as frequently. This allows humidity to build up and will slow evaporation a bit. This isn't a surprise to you of course - you know how often you're refilling the ATO reservoir - and you compensate for the longer refill times by dosing a higher concentration of vinegar+kalk. It always has to add up to your daily consumption rate....easy! :) If you don't have/use HVAC then the story changes considerably.

Regardless of whether you use your ATO, a reactor, a separate dosing pump, a better gravity dripper, etc, I recommend sticking with the formulations and dosing advice on the link in post #12 - much more complete and correct info there.

Good luck! :)

-Matt

mjr · Jun 27, 2014

Well said. In fact, we have central air but use it sparingly in the summer. The basement gets a bit humid and evaporation can go from virtually nothing one day to over a gallon or two another. I am going to have to go with a drip or pump. No other option for me.

Trusting a drip rate is a another story. Been test ing a number if contraptions for the past few months and I'm not totally happy with any of them. Right now my most reliable method is the 1/4 inch line with valve pictured earlier in the thread.

mcarroll · Jun 27, 2014

Everything clogs horribly with kalk...vinegar should make a difference here too.

-Matt

mjr · Jun 27, 2014

I have a 2g bucket of vinegar kalk solution. 1/4 water line at 1 drop per 3 seconds. I estimate 50-100ml of the kalk solution will drip each day.

I'll check the timing again in a few hours to see if it clogs and check my alk is in the morning. I've been supplementing 2part every 12 hours. hopefully the new kalk drip will help me ween back the 2 part dosing.

mjr · Jun 27, 2014

sorry, that should say "...I'm estimating 1800-2000ml of the kalk solution will drip each day. "

mcarroll · Jun 28, 2014

On an 80 gallon system, it should take 5.3 liters, or almost a gallon and a half, of saturated kalk to raise 2 dKH.

If this is what you were shooting for, check your numbers with the calculator linked in post #22.

-Matt

b_rad_G · Jun 28, 2014

Fully saturated solution of 2 tsp kalk per gallon of water. Not 5.3l of the vinegar solution mentioned in this thread.

$pikes_{air · Jun 28, 2014

i have been debating on doing kalk for quite some time now, only problem i am having with it is dosing techniques. not sure that adding it to my ato would be the best for me as my tank evaporates water at different amounts per day, so i don't see that keeping stable paramters. my question is if i want to dose it with my doser how much and what would be the best way to mix the solution?

mcarroll · Jun 28, 2014

mjr said:
So I disolved 3t of kalk powder with 90ml of vinegar (per the instructions, 15ml vinegar to 1/2t kalk), then diluted it in a little under 2 gallons. my question is, does it need to sit and settle for a few hours like normal kalkwasser?

also, does the powder need to completely dissolve in the vinegar before diluting?

when I mixed it w/ the vinegar the powder did not completely dissolve. looked a bit like chalky milk. then when I diluted in fresh water the resulting solution was definitely a bit cloudy. I'm letting it sit for a while before I start using it, but I'm hesitant since I'm not sure if I mixed it right.

I do this via reactor, so I actually don't premix....guess it's been a while since I did that step by hand and I forgot a thing or two.

In fact, from the directions link:

"There should be no sediment in the mixture, or just a little bit at most. You can let the sediment settle out if you don't like the white flakes in your tank. I just drip the liquid and the sediment both into my tank."

If it does seem like more than "a little bit at most" then you may have to question your lime...possibly it hasn't been well sealed and with your humidity has partly turned to calcium carbonate.

b_rad_G said:
Fully saturated solution of 2 tsp kalk per gallon of water. Not 5.3l of the vinegar solution mentioned in this thread.

It's in the instructions, but might not be that clear:

6 grams of lime per gallon (or 1.5g/L) of water is all that's needed to saturate water. 6g/gal is all we should be mixing. Adding vinegar doesn't change its Ca/alk concentration, but if that's your goal vinegar does let you add more lime. Am I missing something in your point tho?

$pikes_{air said:
i have been debating on doing kalk for quite some time now, only problem i am having with it is dosing techniques. not sure that adding it to my ato would be the best for me as my tank evaporates water at different amounts per day, so i don't see that keeping stable paramters. my question is if i want to dose it with my doser how much and what would be the best way to mix the solution?

Read the rest of this thread....in particular the link with directions on post #12. Typically week-by-week your evaporation is consistent so you'll be fine setting it up to dose on a week-by-week basis.

Everyone might also want to check out this recent thread...very similar: https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/reef-chemistry-forum/153980-2-part-kalk.html

-Matt

Pete polyp · Jun 28, 2014

If you mix the 6 grams it won't change the saturation... When you put 3 tsp adding vinegar will definitely increase the Cal/alk concentration. Vinegar is used in two ways, to help stable Ph and to increase concentration. To stable Ph you mix limewater with no vinegar to have full saturation. You remove the clear liquid between the crust on the top and the sediment in the bottom via siphon. You add vinegar to the solution siphoned off and it will not increase saturation. If you add vinegar during the mixing it allows more of the lime to dissolve which will increase the saturation. This of exactly why the OP is having high Ph with the super saturated solution you advised him to use.

mcarroll · Jun 28, 2014

Pete polyp said:
If you mix the 6 grams it won't change the saturation... When you put 3 tsp adding vinegar will definitely increase the Cal/alk concentration. Vinegar is used in two ways, to help stable Ph and to increase concentration. To stable Ph you mix limewater with no vinegar to have full.saturation. You remove the clear liquid between the crust on the top and the sediment I'm the bottom via siphon. You add vinegar to the solution siphoned off and it will not increase saturation. If you add vinegar during the mixing it allows more of the lime to dissolve which will increase the saturation. This of exactly why the OP is having high Ph with the super saturated solution you advised him to use.

Most folks add a lot more lime than needed to saturate their water. This extra material is the reserve which allows more Ca ions to dissolve. While not the only possible cause, this would also make the OP's mix keep the white, silty appearance he described.

6g should totally dissolve in 1 gallon, except the non-soluble "contaminants" like magnesium and strontium oxides, etc, and become an almost completely clear solution as those directions indicate. (I misstated this earlier myself.) Vinegar may dissolve some of those "contaminants" (which our corals would like) but there should be almost no more available Ca ions to dissolve.

-Matt

Pete polyp · Jun 28, 2014

It doesn't matter how much you put in there without vinegar. It will mix to full saturation and stop. You can put a cup of lime in a gallon of rodi and it will dissolve what it will dissolve, the rest settles in the bottom. 2 tsp is all that's needed, but adding more will not increase saturation. When you add vinegar into the rodi it will increase the amount that will dissolve and increase the saturation. The more vinegar you add the more concentrated it becomes. I just read the 12 year old article you have suggested over the article written by Randy Holmes Farley and it clearly stated this. Maybe you need to read the article again and the one written by Randy as both will give you a better understanding.

Pete polyp · Jun 28, 2014

I can't for the life of me figure out why you would advise using kalk+vinegar with someone who doesn't have any experience with dosing kalk. The current consumption on this tank may very well be replenished entirely without the addition of vinegar. I would understand if the OP used it for a while and had a large Ph spike or the consumption was more than regular saturated limewater would replenish. But to start with adding vinegar? Not the best advice IMO.