Switching from LED to Metal Halide

[mcarroll]

Many corals from the stores in the mainland and elsewhere will adapt well to any metal halides/T5s or T5s only. That's another great positive point, not like the majority of LEDs.

What majority? If you look around there are more and more LED reefs every day and corals adapting is not even on the radar as an issue.

If I could have SPS corals and had to pay so much money for them, like you guys do, would never ever waste time and money with any LED fixtures.

There's a good reason for that - you did not get LED's to work. It happens. Like anyone, you are sticking with what works. Look how many folks are using them just fine though. I would try not to put so much on the one limited LED experience you had. It doesn't inform your love of T5's or halides so I don't think it helps your message there, if that's important.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to be hard on anyone. If I would mean that I would say, cause I don't care.

Hm. Caring is okay though....I think we all tend to be nicer to people we care about.

I don't want to be known as an anti-LEDs. I'm just a halide/T5HO guy.

You spend a fair amount of time and energy on the anti-LED track, so to be honest it's hard not to see it that way.

There is not an exact vision for reefing like we had in the mid 90's.

Unless you're talking 1999, the only thing that was universal in that decade was mass precipitation events and killing corals.

The few folks who were succeeding with stony corals were as rare as hen's teeth. I can remember Steve Tyree taking loads of crap when he'd post on Usenet about growing a stony coral enough to frag it. Folks in general didn't even believe growing stony coral successfully was possible back then.

More wide-spread success basically followed the trend of Berlin Style reef tanks and the associated methods. Craig Bingman and later on Randy Holmes-Farley came on the scene and started clearing up the situation with water chemisty around that period of time too. For some book references, Delbeek and Sprung published in 1994.....Fosså and Nilsem published beginning in 1996 through 2000. So those informations only started being disseminated then. It took a while (years) for that info to become widespread.

I think we all need to understand that and try to respect others' choices.

Yes.

I heard some friends of mine telling me to try the LEDs and did try them over a 125gal. tank for a while, just to find out that my old T5 fixture over my 75gal. was still much better for my zoas.

A common story!

What T5 or halide system was replaced? (details, pls)

And what LED system did you choose to set up? (details too)

Did you happen to open a thread anywhere to get some help in troubleshooting what the problem was?

Folks set up LEDs without help and have trouble all the time. I even nuked a tank full of stony corals when I switched – but I simply didn't have the budget to switch back to halides so I had to figure it out. (Lesson: Use a light meter when you swtich!! Any light meter!! No exceptions.)

Same thing goes for T5 and halide if you really do recall the 1990's and pre-LED-2000's. The only way you had any idea how to set up lights was by cloning a system you saw working somewhere else. Nobody had light meters, or really any good hardware or good information like we have today. Even with the meters and info we have today, it seems like most folks still set up their lights the old fashioned way, by "eyeballing it".

I would wager that your second try at LED's would not have any problems at all. We'd all be there to help!!

 

[A. grandis]

What majority? If you look around there are more and more LED reefs every day and corals adapting is not even on the radar as an issue.

I've seen so many threads asking for help setting up LED fixtures... That shows and tell everything to us.

There's a good reason for that - you did not get LED's to work. It happens. Like anyone, you are sticking with what works. Look how many folks are using them just fine though. I would try not to put so much on the one limited LED experience you had. It doesn't inform your love of T5's or halides so I don't think it helps your message there, if that's important.

My message is not only from my experiences... You probably heard of many others...
My message here started when I saw the article about LEDs and got stronger when people are thinking that LEDs are actually BETTER than halides or T5s because of a PDF. That's unfair! Comparison was unfair! That's not right! Newbies coming to see this "wonderful and psychedelic world of disco reefing". LOL! Don't provoke me, man! LOL!

But seriously...
I actually had the LEDs to work. Never lost a polyp for the LEDs. I searched very well to try them out. I've got 2 brand new "junk" black boxes and the zoas were growing very nicely and fast under them until, after months, they started looking weird and not growing naturally with umbrella shapes. Colors were ok...not like the T5s. Totally strange and with an artificial look. The blue diodes would shine on them giving the impression of good color. Pure reflection!! When I changed and put the T5s I could see the difference. They were still reproducing under the LEDs with the care of good water chemistry and the perfect environment offered, but their structure wasn't what supposed to be and the LEDs were the problem.. Same happened to many friends that had other "high end" LEDs too. It's just the nature of the diodes. Not the same as my T5s, no way... Even kids can tell. They asks me if those are Chirstmas lights. Hehe! I believe that the majority of people who think they are using them "just fine" don't know better, or decided to stick with what they paid so much for. It's definitely not the best light for zoanthids, even worse for SPS and LPS. Besides, the LFS has LEDs and logically customers will get what they sell as they sell under LEDs.
The fact that it "works" doesn't mean it's good. It keeps them alive, but is that what reef light should be about?
Then why not only me? Many around the world are also realizing and going back to their old fixtures...
It's a matter of what they are looking for for their corals. That also could be referred as " a matter of taste"(?).

How many times do I have to repeat all this?;Meh

Hm. Caring is okay though....I think we all tend to be nicer to people we care about.

You're right and I agree. I care about the PEOPLE.
I strongly think that we should tell the truth to the people we care about, right?
I just don't care about the LED train that goes fast collecting people and giving them those LED glasses, so they can see only the LEDs' way to reef. Of course! Cause if they know about the other lights they won't stick with LEDs. And they know that too.

You spend a fair amount of time and energy on the anti-LED track, so to be honest it's hard not to see it that way.

Yeah, I've been spending long time on this. Hope people appreciate. It's just ridiculous to ignore the truth about the other lights and say they are from the past. No, they are very well a present thing for the serious refers around the world. Let's not let US get into this mud.

Unless you're talking 1999, the only thing that was universal in that decade was mass precipitation events and killing corals.

The few folks who were succeeding with stony corals were as rare as hen's teeth. I can remember Steve Tyree taking loads of crap when he'd post on Usenet about growing a stony coral enough to frag it. Folks in general didn't even believe growing stony coral successfully was possible back then.

More wide-spread success basically followed the trend of Berlin Style reef tanks and the associated methods. Craig Bingman and later on Randy Holmes-Farley came on the scene and started clearing up the situation with water chemisty around that period of time too. For some book references, Delbeek and Sprung published in 1994.....Fosså and Nilsem published beginning in 1996 through 2000. So those informations only started being disseminated then. It took a while (years) for that info to become widespread.

Yeah, I should perhaps say after the year 2000... I'm getting old!;Watching

Yes.

A common story!

I'm glad you agree.

What T5 or halide system was replaced? (details, pls)

ATI old style Powermodule all T5s 8 bulbs with 6 blue Plus and 2 coral Plus. Best combo I had in that system!

And what LED system did you choose to set up? (details too)

"Junk" brand new smelling good black box. That was the best LED light I saw with more LEDs and better lenses, with better results. Lot's of light and impressive growth.
I have a friend that had same light and liked it better than any expensive unit. The results from my LEDs were the same from other friends as well, with other expensive fixtures. Weird growth pattern and way too much shades. Spectrum wasn't bad as others, showing a more uniform color. Still no comparison to my ATI bulbs. ATI fixtures rock!

Did you happen to open a thread anywhere to get some help in troubleshooting what the problem was?

For what? There wasn't any reason I would have to, because all the LEDs shows such shades and weird growth, comparing to T5s.

Folks set up LEDs without help and have trouble all the time. I even nuked a tank full of stony corals when I switched – but I simply didn't have the budget to switch back to halides so I had to figure it out. (Lesson: Use a light meter when you swtich!! Any light meter!! No exceptions.)

No light meter here. I don't need. And I didn't need with the LEDs either. Like I've said, I searched well and knew how to proceed with the acclimation. I did order a lux meter 2 days ago for curiosity...

Same thing goes for T5 and halide if you really do recall the 1990's and pre-LED-2000's. The only way you had any idea how to set up lights was by cloning a system you saw working somewhere else. Nobody had light meters, or really any good hardware or good information like we have today. Even with the meters and info we have today, it seems like most folks still set up their lights the old fashioned way, by "eyeballing it".

Acclimation is true to all lights when changing to a different type or changing the bulbs. No big deal to me.

I would wager that your second try at LED's would not have any problems at all. We'd all be there to help!!

LOL! Never. Total waste of time. No sense to me. With all the respect.
But I do know that all the people here would hep me any time, if I needed.
This forum is great!
Thanks very much for this post. I hope it helps people to understand even more how great T5s are and why I don't like LEDs.;Wideyed

Grandis.

 

[DSC reef]

I know most lights can grow coral in our tanks. Some better than others but they grow regardless. For me it's what do I want to see when I'm looking in the tank. We spend all this time and money in our tanks, we should enjoy looking at it. I see a lot of justification on why buy this led fixture or why I gave up halides but in the end if you enjoy how your tank looks then that's all that matters. The discussion of what's better is kinda moot at this point, they all grow coral and they all have pros and cons. I don't cry about the cost of replacing halide and T5 bulbs or running a chiller. That's the expense I'm willing to pay to have the look I like for a tank we enjoy. The whole argument for switching to led due to cost always entertains me though. I wouldn't buy a hell cat and complain about gas mileage. Halides have costs and I'm well aware and it's worth it to me.

 

[A. grandis]

I know most lights can grow coral in our tanks. Some better than others but they grow regardless. For me it's what do I want to see when I'm looking in the tank. We spend all this time and money in our tanks, we should enjoy looking at it. I see a lot of justification on why buy this led fixture or why I gave up halides but in the end if you enjoy how your tank looks then that's all that matters. The discussion of what's better is kinda moot at this point, they all grow coral and they all have pros and cons. I don't cry about the cost of replacing halide and T5 bulbs or running a chiller. That's the expense I'm willing to pay to have the look I like for a tank we enjoy. The whole argument for switching to led due to cost always entertains me though. I wouldn't buy a hell cat and complain about gas mileage. Halides have costs and I'm well aware and it's worth it to me.

Yes, it is moot at this point because the LEDs' market is so strong now a days.
It is what it is. You are right though.
It's good and ok to publish our preferences like you're doing.]
That should be accepted and counts for the newbies to decide what path they think they should follow.
We don't want to see only LEDs in the future. That would be disaster in my opinion. Not evolution, but regression.
We need to keep options open. Great post!
Aloha,
Grandis.

 

[10Seconds]

Well I am new to the scene and of course the local fish shop pushed LEDs. So I bought and used LEDs. When I didn't get the growth and color I expected I bought other LEDs. Now, coming up on 2 yrs of having the tank, I am making a switch to MH and T5s. Because the tanks I have seen with the best growth and look have been using these. So I am giving it a go vs "upgrading" to the new $800 gen 4 version of the same light that I don't see making the results I want. If the LEDs were so good why are so many people dumping the gen 3 radions to try gen 4? Answer is simple, the lights weren't working for them and they want better. But I'm getting out of that rut.

Going to a 14k Phoenix DE Metal Halide and 4 ATI T5s, a coral plus, and 3 blue. I think to start with.

Some times I wonder if people defend and talk up a certain light partly because they have so much invested into it.

 

[mcarroll]

My message here started when I saw the article about LEDs and got stronger when people are thinking that LEDs are actually BETTER than halides or T5s because of a PDF. That's unfair! Comparison was unfair! That's not right! Newbies coming to see this "wonderful and psychedelic world of disco reefing". LOL! Don't provoke me, man! LOL!

I don't know what PDF you're referring to, but the marketing of reef LED fixtures has bordered on looney since the early days. No argument there. That's how @mcarroll toasts a tank of corals in the switch to LED! ;Nailbiting

The hype does not help anyone on the customer end, but apparently they see it as necessity. How is it that some of these mfgr's still don't even include the power of the lenses they use in their published spec's? It's 2017, right?

I'm not into hype from anyone....not at that level anyway! Makes it too hard to think rationally, let alone figure out a new technology!!

I've got 2 brand new "junk" black boxes and the zoas were growing very nicely and fast under them until, after months, they started looking weird and not growing naturally with umbrella shapes. Colors were ok...

On my (nonexistent) list of "Worst LED Fixtures For Folk Who Favor T5HO's But Want To Switch".

More below on the Powermodule comment...

Yeah, I've been spending long time on this. Hope people appreciate. It's just ridiculous to ignore the truth about the other lights and say they are from the past. No, they are very well a present thing for the serious refers around the world. Let's not let US get into this mud.

You are a great proponent of T5's and there are still obviously fans of that tech....new and old. I think you're going to sell more people by focusing on that angle – being a proponent of the lights you really like. Bashing LED's really isn't a strength.

More thoughts on this (and an idea!!) coming in PM.

ATI old style Powermodule all T5s 8 bulbs with 6 blue Plus and 2 coral Plus. Best combo I had in that system!

Mounted how high? Assuming it's a fixture that fit the tank, 8 tubes is pretty massive coverage and power.

Even if two black boxes were comparable in output power to your T5 fixture, that would be a horrible spread comparison.

"Junk" brand new smelling good black box. That was the best LED light I saw with more LEDs and better lenses, with better results. Lot's of light and impressive growth.
I have a friend that had same light and liked it better than any expensive unit. The results from my LEDs were the same from other friends as well, with other expensive fixtures. Weird growth pattern and way too much shades. Spectrum wasn't bad as others, showing a more uniform color. Still no comparison to my ATI bulbs. ATI fixtures rock!

This sounds exactly how folks would copy and set up T5 and halide systems before the era of light meters and good information and have such mixed results.

For what it's worth, T5's have by far the most homogenous light field I've seen. Almost unnaturally so IMO – but I do see why it's appealing. Only the deepest categories of reef would see light like that...where scattering has eliminated all directionality from the light.

The LED's you chose were the least-homogenous, most disco-bally, most-spotlighty LED's you could get.

It's possible that you could have made a better switch using the LED's you picked, but using twice as many units, but I'd have started with a different LED platform that was a lot closer to your tastes in light to begin with. No need to start off on the wrong foot and then have to "make it work".

For what? There wasn't any reason I would have to, because all the LEDs shows such shades and weird growth, comparing to T5s.

You compared one fixture that was junk as you call it. A junk fixture that you want us to believe is equal to or better than "high dollar" fixtures. Also a fixture that is about as un-like your old lights as you can get. If it was a car, I'd say you need to yell at/complain about your salesman – not the car maker.

Recognizing the position that particular fixture choice put you in should/could have led you to post a thread asking for guidance in setup. In particular after you noticed the less-desireable results.

You seem assume (then and now) that all LED's are the same....assumed you and your friends knew how to use them. It seems like those assumptions led to a somewhat predictable situation....at least in hindsight with 20/20 vision.

Not unlike the situation I found myself in when I switched...only my results were infinitely worse! Funny shaped polyps in your case is barely even a complaint vs a tank of bleached-bare and dead coral skeletons. Yet somehow (because I had no choice I guess) I still figured out the issue and I'm still using those LED's today, five years later. LED's weren't the problem – it was how I was using them. How I used them was based on a lot of assumptions and hearsay. How I used them was not based on the use of a light meter and solid information.

In hindsight, I had predictable results too. I obsess about lux meters.

No light meter here. I don't need. And I didn't need with the LEDs either. Like I've said, I searched well and knew how to proceed with the acclimation. I did order a lux meter 2 days ago for curiosity...

No, no, no. I don't take any enjoyment from saying it (because I've been there!!!), but with that approach and mindset you had a failure coming your way almost no matter what. It probably made sense at the time, but totally the wrong perspective. Every reefer needs a light meter, IMO – especially the ones who think they don't. Your eyeballs aren't capable like a meter is. Which is a good thing for you, but a bad thing for metering a light fixture.

You were counting on getting lucky on several fronts at once – fixture choice, fixture setup, etc. – and it didn't happen. Me too!!!!! = Dead Coral.

Holler when you get that lux meter – tag me and @saltyfilmfolks when you post about it!!!

Which one did you order?

I hope it helps people to understand even more how great T5s are and why I don't like LEDs

It does help!

Good folks can agree to disagree on aesthetic differences.

That disagreement doesn't necessitate that either party has wasted money or time or has "better" aesthetics.

I don't know anyone who has a gauge for measuring "coral health" by the way. The "popped colors look" (or whatever) is either fakery by using colored lighting or photoshop (the garish crayola look) or it's a pre-bleaching stage (pastel look) as far as any evidence I can point to would suggest. Or some combination.

I wrote this about popped colors: “Pop” – The Internet Reefer’s Decoder Ring

What I like is for people to be successful growing corals. The conditions requisite for that seem to be very universal across corals. Since the corals seem to barely care what light they get (they have the most diverse, widely ranging, extreme light environment on the planet) this means that I just like folks to be successful with the light they choose. This is why hybrid light systems bother me a little...at least ones where someone buys new lights based on hype, hates them, then grafts another light system onto it. ;Inpain

 

[A. grandis]

Well I am new to the scene and of course the local fish shop pushed LEDs. So I bought and used LEDs. When I didn't get the growth and color I expected I bought other LEDs. Now, coming up on 2 yrs of having the tank, I am making a switch to MH and T5s. Because the tanks I have seen with the best growth and look have been using these. So I am giving it a go vs "upgrading" to the new $800 gen 4 version of the same light that I don't see making the results I want. If the LEDs were so good why are so many people dumping the gen 3 radions to try gen 4? Answer is simple, the lights weren't working for them and they want better. But I'm getting out of that rut.

Going to a 14k Phoenix DE Metal Halide and 4 ATI T5s, a coral plus, and 3 blue. I think to start with.

Some times I wonder if people defend and talk up a certain light partly because they have so much invested into it.

Well, I "wonder" that all the time! LOL!
People are actually trying to convince themselves because of the investment, yes. Better yet... the snow ball never ending upgrade circle in the name of technology makes them to think that they are actually growing with technology.
I'm glad you're moving up! The MH/T5 is going to make you and the corals very happy!
Make sure you adapt the system slowly!
Grandis.

 

[A. grandis]

I don't know what PDF you're referring to, but the marketing of reef LED fixtures has bordered on looney since the early days. No argument there. That's how @mcarroll toasts a tank of corals in the switch to LED! ;Nailbiting

The hype does not help anyone on the customer end, but apparently they see it as necessity. How is it that some of these mfgr's still don't even include the power of the lenses they use in their published spec's? It's 2017, right?

I'm not into hype from anyone....not at that level anyway! Makes it too hard to think rationally, let alone figure out a new technology!!

http://ecotechmarine.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/ReefWholesale_CoralLab.pdf

On my (nonexistent) list of "Worst LED Fixtures For Folk Who Favor T5HO's But Want To Switch".

More below on the Powermodule comment...

You are a great proponent of T5's and there are still obviously fans of that tech....new and old. I think you're going to sell more people by focusing on that angle – being a proponent of the lights you really like. Bashing LED's really isn't a strength.

More thoughts on this (and an idea!!) coming in PM.

Mounted how high? Assuming it's a fixture that fit the tank, 8 tubes is pretty massive coverage and power.

Even if two black boxes were comparable in output power to your T5 fixture, that would be a horrible spread comparison.

11"from water surface for both.
8 bulbs is the recommended fixture for my 125gal.
Coverage from black box was phenomenal and the intensity was very good. Some times I thought it was actually overkill!
Yes, horrible spread in regards to shades all over, as all the other LED fixtures!
Please try ask the serious people about lighting and then you will understand me.
Try ask BRS's Ryan! Or watch his videos...
Better yet... read this thread and the linked article there and see the videos of Coral Gardens, BRS and many others...
That way you save us lots of time... All you need to know about my opinions are here...

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/l...oas-discussion-what-are-your-thoughts.268851/

BUT... if you want to go LEDs, it's your choice and I'll respect that.
that doesn't mean that I'll shut up and not tell you what I think.
I said already many times all over this forum.
That is good because stays registered for many to read...
I'm sorry but you won't change the facts.

This sounds exactly how folks would copy and set up T5 and halide systems before the era of light meters and good information and have such mixed results.

For what it's worth, T5's have by far the most homogenous light field I've seen. Almost unnaturally so IMO – but I do see why it's appealing. Only the deepest categories of reef would see light like that...where scattering has eliminated all directionality from the light.

The LED's you chose were the least-homogenous, most disco-bally, most-spotlighty LED's you could get.

It's possible that you could have made a better switch using the LED's you picked, but using twice as many units, but I'd have started with a different LED platform that was a lot closer to your tastes in light to begin with. No need to start off on the wrong foot and then have to "make it work".

No, the lenses were actually great 90°s and the spectrum was really nice! I could control to a great color and it was amazingly pleasant to me when I found the exactly spectrum I wanted. Almost no disco at the distance I had from surface. I have a friend that had the same fixture. We bought together. But all the other LEDs I asked around also were weird and same results as mine too. LEDs aren't reef lights IMO. At least not primary reef lights, you know... Like the kid asked me the other day when he saw the Radion at the store: "Is that Christmas lights?" LOL!! I said they were for the zoas. The kid put the hand under the lights and looked at me. His eyes were saying: " you must be kidding me!!" Those kids go to the reef and they know what the sun looks like underwater, my friend!!LOL!
I do understand they "grow" corals and they survive. That's all I see in any LED tank. I'm sorry.
They do look like shoe boxes sprayed painted black with some Christmas lights.

You compared one fixture that was junk as you call it. A junk fixture that you want us to believe is equal to or better than "high dollar" fixtures. Also a fixture that is about as un-like your old lights as you can get. If it was a car, I'd say you need to yell at/complain about your salesman – not the car maker.

Recognizing the position that particular fixture choice put you in should/could have led you to post a thread asking for guidance in setup. In particular after you noticed the less-desireable results.

You seem assume (then and now) that all LED's are the same....assumed you and your friends knew how to use them. It seems like those assumptions led to a somewhat predictable situation....at least in hindsight with 20/20 vision.

Not unlike the situation I found myself in when I switched...only my results were infinitely worse! Funny shaped polyps in your case is barely even a complaint vs a tank of bleached-bare and dead coral skeletons. Yet somehow (because I had no choice I guess) I still figured out the issue and I'm still using those LED's today, five years later. LED's weren't the problem – it was how I was using them. How I used them was based on a lot of assumptions and hearsay. How I used them was not based on the use of a light meter and solid information.

In hindsight, I had predictable results too. I obsess about lux meters.

You don't understand... I'm talking for myself and for many others with those expensive brands you guys buy.
How many million times I have to say that? ;Wideyed Haha!
Search... go to this thread and see for yourself (for future references):
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/am-i-crazy-for-thinking-mh-t5.329642/

No, no, no. I don't take any enjoyment from saying it (because I've been there!!!), but with that approach and mindset you had a failure coming your way almost no matter what. It probably made sense at the time, but totally the wrong perspective. Every reefer needs a light meter, IMO – especially the ones who think they don't. Your eyeballs aren't capable like a meter is. Which is a good thing for you, but a bad thing for metering a light fixture.

You were counting on getting lucky on several fronts at once – fixture choice, fixture setup, etc. – and it didn't happen. Me too!!!!! = Dead Coral.

Holler when you get that lux meter – tag me and @saltyfilmfolks when you post about it!!!

Which one did you order?

Thank you very much for the help and offer. I really appreciate. I didn't buy the lux meter worried about my lights, but only for curiosity. Also to understand your language. maybe later I'll get a PAR meter. I have to make lots of money for that though!!!
Haha!
I don't get it. What's your point here? My zoas were growing and spreading for a while and then they stopped and struggled without any changes. That happened to many friends. Other parts of the world too. But those guys know better because they had MH's and/or T5s prior their LEDs. So they could compare. When I put a T5 fixture in any system I set up they have absolutely no problem. LEDs aren't the best for corals and zoas, you know?! I choose to get the best for my tank.

I got the red lux meter that saltyfilmfolks suggested in one of the threads.
But again... I've never had any problems nor needed to measure numbers with any lights I've had.
To me this is unnecessary.
And tell me why should I even try any other LEDs. There were virtually no savings on electricity!!!!!
That was the only reason I've tried LEDs: to save electricity.
So it became stupid to keep dreaming LED colors and paying the same at the end of the month....

It does help!

Good folks can agree to disagree on aesthetic differences.

That disagreement doesn't necessitate that either party has wasted money or time or has "better" aesthetics.

I don't know anyone who has a gauge for measuring "coral health" by the way. The "popped colors look" (or whatever) is either fakery by using colored lighting or photoshop (the garish crayola look) or it's a pre-bleaching stage (pastel look) as far as any evidence I can point to would suggest. Or some combination.

I wrote this about popped colors: “Pop” – The Internet Reefer’s Decoder Ring

What I like is for people to be successful growing corals. The conditions requisite for that seem to be very universal across corals. Since the corals seem to barely care what light they get (they have the most diverse, widely ranging, extreme light environment on the planet) this means that I just like folks to be successful with the light they choose. This is why hybrid light systems bother me a little...at least ones where someone buys new lights based on hype, hates them, then grafts another light system onto it. ;Inpain

Yeah, perhaps you're right when you say : "I don't know anyone who has a gauge for measuring "coral health" by the way."
Nowadays people think what they see in the stores is what should be done at home.
It's a shame!
Not all the stores! But many are keeping those blue LEDs as a pattern.
Sad!
I collected all my zoas and know what they should look like. I know how they behave in the wild and look for that when I place them in captivity. That should be our goal as reefers. I choose to teach that and defend it when keeping marine organisms for long periods of time. That's what I see. LEDs won't allow that to happen. T5s only will. MHs are the best. MH/T5s the very best.
LEDs don't even provide the best for aquatic plants. I also tried that!!!! They can grow, like the corals, but not the best!
T5s are also back over my planted tank!! HUGE difference!

Bottom line is:
Please try find out how many people went from LEDs to MHs/T5 and how many people did the opposite.
That should give you enough proof of what is really going on in the reef world.
I'll answer your PM. Thanks!
I enjoyed the conversation.

Aloha,
Grandis.

 

[10Seconds]

Grandis, you are exactly right. My first run with LEDs I tried it like they had at the shop, very blue. LOL.

I do think part of the trouble with LED is that you can adjust too much and the average reefer probably shouldn't.

 

[Nano101]

I loved my 8 bulb ATI T5 HO light on my 75. Would grow anything. I do like ramping of leds though. When I use my LEDs, I don’t tweak each bulb, I use the kelvin feature so I know I’m at around 10k around mid day, and ramps from high k in the morning and back to high k in the evening. I view it as I want the same spectrum as a MH, but I add the ramp at low power so I can see what’s in my tank for longer parts of the day.

 

[teller]

I made the same question in another thread so I repeat:
I have one question.
If MH is the God of lightning why only a very few still use it?
And many who advocate it no longer use it?
Is there something I am missing?
Thanks.

 

[DSC reef]

I made the same question in another thread so I repeat:
I have one question.
If MH is the God of lightning why only a very few still use it?
And many who advocate it no longer use it?
Is there something I am missing?
Thanks.

Metal halide is tried and true with no adjusting spectrum. Led lights work too, no one is saying that. There's just as many people selling there led lights as there is metal halides so I'm not sure if your post is just to start drama. Do your research and you find plenty of led lights being sold. Most lights grow coral, we know that and all can agree. What do you like to look at on your tank @teller? If it's leds then keep them, very simple.

 

[Dennis Cartier]

I made the same question in another thread so I repeat:
I have one question.
If MH is the God of lightning why only a very few still use it?
And many who advocate it no longer use it?
Is there something I am missing?
Thanks.

Even though it is considered the gold standard of lighting (for a reef), it comes with some baggage. Namely the heat that they give off can cause temperature issues for tanks in hotter climates requiring the use of a chiller. The other is the cost of operating MH systems. The bulbs need to be replaced every 6 - 12 months to maintain PAR and the desired spectrum. They also are less efficient than LEDs due to the energy that is radiated as heat. This increases the energy costs. If a chiller is called for, then that adds to the cost as well.

So that was the cons, the pros are that they are dead simple to use. They have great spread (due to the reflectors), and they grow and colour up coral really well.

Dennis

 

[Velcro]

Thanks @mcarroll for putting the energy into accurately diffusing these ridiculous posts.

I’ve been biting my tongue for days in two different threads.

 

[DSC reef]

I dont understand why people cant support either tecnology for lighting. I use halides and know the additional costs that comes with them. To me its not a negative to invest in lighting I prefer to look at. Its getting old to see people battle over lighting. ALL LIGHTING has pros and cons! Use what you want and enjoy your tank. I'm not against led lighting, I just prefer halides. Its 2017, leds are growing amazing and colorful tanks and so does halides.

 

[BoomCorals]

Well I am new to the scene and of course the local fish shop pushed LEDs. So I bought and used LEDs. When I didn't get the growth and color I expected I bought other LEDs. Now, coming up on 2 yrs of having the tank, I am making a switch to MH and T5s. Because the tanks I have seen with the best growth and look have been using these. So I am giving it a go vs "upgrading" to the new $800 gen 4 version of the same light that I don't see making the results I want. If the LEDs were so good why are so many people dumping the gen 3 radions to try gen 4? Answer is simple, the lights weren't working for them and they want better. But I'm getting out of that rut.

Going to a 14k Phoenix DE Metal Halide and 4 ATI T5s, a coral plus, and 3 blue. I think to start with.

Some times I wonder if people defend and talk up a certain light partly because they have so much invested into it.

It looks like everyone is dumping G3 to get G4. But in reality there are who knows how many radions out there. The more radions sold the more you'll see on for sale forums. People like to have the latest and greatest. And the G4 lenses are pretty great in regards to radions.

 

[teller]

Metal halide is tried and true with no adjusting spectrum. Led lights work too, no one is saying that. There's just as many people selling there led lights as there is metal halides so I'm not sure if your post is just to start drama. Do your research and you find plenty of led lights being sold. Mist lights grow coral, we know that and all can agree. What do you like to look at on your tank @teller? If it's leds then keep them, very simpl

Metal halide is tried and true with no adjusting spectrum. Led lights work too, no one is saying that. There's just as many people selling there led lights as there is metal halides so I'm not sure if your post is just to start drama. Do your research and you find plenty of led lights being sold. Mist lights grow coral, we know that and all can agree. What do you like to look at on your tank @teller? If it's leds then keep them, very simple.

Metal halide is tried and true with no adjusting spectrum. Led lights work too, no one is saying that. There's just as many people selling there led lights as there is metal halides so I'm not sure if your post is just to start drama. Do your research and you find plenty of led lights being sold. Most lights grow coral, we know that and all can agree. What do you like to look at on your tank @teller? If it's leds then keep them, very simple.

No drama. Instead one question I made two.
I would like to see more answers.
Regarding "no one is saying that" you must be joking with me: @A. grandis said that LEDs not even for fresh water are suitable in one post.
I keep LEDs and no critics about T5 or MH.
Still I keep my two questions opened.

If MH is the God of lightning why only a very few still use it?
And many who advocate it no longer use it?
Is there something I am missing?

Thanks

 

[DSC reef]

The one person doesn't doesn't speak for majority, perhaps ask him a question directly. I never used the word god of lighting but there's no denying halides have a tried and true record. Read my other posts, I'm not debating what light is best and I think I was pretty clear about lighting. Most of these debates end in drama while both types of lighting grow amazing tanks. Again teller, just as many led lights being sold.

 

[Crabs McJones]

People like to have the latest and greatest.

Just look at cell phones, prime example of that.

 

[BoomCorals]

I am hanging my halide T5 fixture today. I haven't used either in 8 years so I'll be happy to provide an unbiased review. I have been using LED for years, with phenomenal growth, color, and coral health. But I'll try any light and will use what works the best. I have zero bias towards any technology. I carry kessils because it is my favorite LED. I carry halide bulbs because they work. If I could I'd carry the pendants and fixtures too.