Switching from LED to Metal Halide

[Wildcats1023]

Looking for opinions and experiences of reefers who switched from LED to metal halide. I have a mixed reef right now with decent growth and colors. I just don't have the colors that some have that I have seen that use halides. Any advice would be great. If you have made the same switch what was your increase in electric costs?

 

[mcarroll]

I switched the other way, so maybe I can at least offer some advice and opinions. (And give the thread a bump too.)

If you haven't opened a thread to troubleshoot the coral color issue yet, I would start there so you can rule all those potentials out before you spend any real money. :)

Happy corals already have amazing colors without adding extra green or red lights. ;)

If they're less than colorful, it could mean they are less than happy.

Things that could improve coral colors:

• better food
• better flow
• more stable chemistry
• some available dissolve nitrates
• some available dissolved phosphates
• zero nitrates or phosphates is a definite problem
• more light (know your current PAR or lux readings?)

Dunno if you want to get into all that here in this thread, so let me know if so....or PM me if you want, or open another thread. :) :)

You're going to use around 30% more power to light a tank with halides.

But in terms of your electric bill it's not so simple....heaters will be running a lot less as a result, so not all of those new watts going to lighting will be brand new watts....

Personally, my advice is to stick with what you have simply because halides will cost so much to run. Bulb costs will exceed power use as a cost by a wide margin.

For perspective, I can build you a whole DIY LED fixture for less than the cost of one year's worth of replacement halide bulbs. Bulbs are expensive. :)

 

[Wildcats1023]

..

 

[acer]

What type of LED's were you using and what Metal Halides would you be switching to? - assuming that it is indeed a case of lighting that is causing your issue. So, following along to see if switching to MH actually helps you out or not.

 

[stephj03]

I'm kinda old school so I would go tried and true if you switch.
250w radium bulbs
250w hqi ballast
Any of the old reflectors with lumen in the name (lumenarc, lumen max, lumen bright, Hamilton equivalent ).

1 bulb/reflector for every 2ft of tank length.

Maybe think about t5 as well.

 

[Fisk and chips]

so i have a question has anyone ever use reef bright mh and radions on the same tank? with my new build i'll be using 2 gen4 pros's and a reef bright mh in the middle an it will come on for about two, three hours a day at the peak of my schedule. If you have any info that would be great! thanks

 

[reefwiser]

I always find the saving money thing on LED funny as we are talking a 59 dollar bulb. Electric cost can be a wash at least it was for me when I switched from Radions to Reefbrite MH/LED fixture.

 

[zoanutty]

so i have a question has anyone ever use reef bright mh and radions on the same tank? with my new build i'll be using 2 gen4 pros's and a reef bright mh in the middle an it will come on for about two, three hours a day at the peak of my schedule. If you have any info that would be great! thanks

I used one for about 2 months on a 93 gal cube and at the top of the water line I was getting over 1000 par so I dropped everything to the floor (it was a temporary grow out tank), and omg the growth down there exploded!!!

 

[Greybeard]

60 Cube, went from an AquaticLife Halo to a Hamilton Bimini Sun 250w 14,000k DE halide on an electronic ballast. I honestly wanted to go to T5's, but didn't like the look of a huge fixture over my cube. Halo produced decent coloring, but slow growth rates.

Unfortunately, I had a tank crash about the same time I did the light change. Unrelated... hands covered in gun cleaner took out the tank. Growth rates on what little I've put in the tank so far are excellent, as is coloration. I did have to add a fan to keep the temp down, but other than that, it's been fine.

I'm planning an upgrade, to a wide, shallow peninsula system. Going to T5 on that system.

 

[Breadman03]

so i have a question has anyone ever use reef bright mh and radions on the same tank? with my new build i'll be using 2 gen4 pros's and a reef bright mh in the middle an it will come on for about two, three hours a day at the peak of my schedule. If you have any info that would be great! thanks

I actually have a pair of Radion XR30G4Pros and a 400 watt Hamilton halide over my reef. Now, I'd had other issues that means my corals consist of basically a couple test frags, but I was pretty surprised at how little my energy costs are. 4xMP40's running Reefcrest at 70%, the pair of Radions running the SPS AB+ schedule to 75% from 11am to 11pm and 2 hours of the halide comes out to about $11/month at my current 7.9 cents per kWh.

 

[Centerline]

I had 3 40gl frag tanks a few years back that were running Rapid Led Onyx fixtures - 2 on each tank. I was growing mainly monties and sps and was absolutely amazed at the growth and coloration. I have always ran high alk/cal/mg/flow tanks and had a pretty good handle on the tank nutrients - if under MHs I would have expected the same thing. Nitrates stated getting a little high in the tank and I foolishly installed a Bio Pellet reactor without understanding just how good a job they could do with nutrient control. Long story short - after a couple of months the coral really started to suffer so I sold them all and blamed the LEDs ;). The LEDs were fine - I had a lot of coverage and ran them cranked up. The corals grew like weeds. I killed the ctanks because I was careless with testing and didn't stop to think it out. Not the LEDs fault. No chiller required.

That being said, currently I use both MH and LEDs on different tanks. I think they are both great. My MH tank is primarily SPS but I have various LPS in lower light areas including a bunch of rainbow chalice - all of this is under Radiums with par at the top of the tank running in the 600s and about 300 at the bottom of the tank. The MH are supplemented by 4 T5s and 3 Reefbrite HOs. I run the MH 6 hours a day and the T5s & LEDs 11. The chiller comes on about 6 times a day for a few min so the noise and cost are kept to a minimum. With respect to bulb replacement and regardless of all the talk about replacement every 6 months, I easily get a year out of my bulbs and only replace them when I show that the par has dropped off 20% or so. I have gone as long as 2 years with Radium's and still had 70% of the initial par when new. Once most MH bulbs have been ran for 6 months or so the par values will drop off by around 15%. By the end of the first year most will still have 70% or so of their initial par and over the next year will see par values decline very little. In my case that means that 600 par @ 6" would be 420 par at 6". Its a respectable number none the less and of course I could simply lower the light a little to pick some of the par back up. So I feel its safe to say that you can forget the bulb replacement argument.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-04/ac/index.php

At my office I run a RedSea Reefer that has 2 Hydra 52 HDs. Its a new tank - about 6 months old. The tank is primarily an LPS / Zoa tank though I do have a few SPS at the top of the tank. Starting at 7AM I run the Hydras at 30% and ramp up to 70% by 11AM and keep it there till 4PM and then ramp back down to 30% by 8PM. We are ALWAYS work at late so I want to see the tank lights on when I'm there. The tank is very healthy and requires very little work to keep it up. My Zoa are doing great, I have a clam that it growing like crazy, trachi, hammers, anchors, bubble tips, crazy green star polps, a photo synthetic blue gorgonian that is growing very well, ultra green polyp leather, crazy fast growing Duncan, ultra welsos and last but not least a red planet and a patella doing just fine. The ONLY corals I have had a problem with are rainbow chalice. No idea why but I suspect the way I have the lights blended is the culprit. The ONLY complaint I have is that I should have purchased one more light for better coverage and I may do so shortly.

So I guess it comes down to preference.

The MHs do a wonderful job of growing SPS and pretty much anything else I put in the tank. I love the look of radiums and of course I have the T5s and Reefbrites for late night viewing. I don't care a bit about the cost of the bulbs, electricity or the chiller kicking on from time to time.

The LEDs do a wonderful job of growing everything with the exception of perhaps my rainbow chalice but again that may be how I have the lights setup. I love the color the lights produce and its fun fiddling with them. The MHs seem to grow SPS better based on friends tanks but I'm not sure that's not a husbandry issue as I have seen some tanks in person such as one of the displays at WWC that has 3 Radions on it that is growing the heck out of SPS.

Also if your looking to switch maybe a T5 / Leds solution would be worth looking at. The Giesemann Aurora is one crazy nice fixture and grows the crap out of SPS.

Kinda long here - hope it was helpful.

 

[mcarroll]

I have gone as long as 2 years with Radium's and still had 70% of the initial par when new. [...] So I feel its safe to say that you can forget the bulb replacement argument.

If only it worked that way. Burn in doesn't happen evenly. Blues go first. (I haven't seen anything that indicates the story is much different with T5's.)

Regardless if that, if you're saying you've grown corals successfully on 2 year old Radium bulbs, then you need to start offering to buy used Radium bulbs from people (or take them as donations), and stop buying new bulbs altogether. Seriously. ;)

Under a normal replacement regime, most folks will replace them about 1.5 times per year.....or every 9 months....depending on lighting schedule.

I can tell you that in my system, under dual 150w Radiums, corals would start reacting almost exactly on the 6 month mark – not happy.

I had to cut back my lighting hours to extend that 6 months out to something like 9 months. The tank was only lit 6-8 hours a day at that point instead of 12 as before.

Plus you have to think about bulb replacement time....if your bulbs are 2 years gone and you replace them, your corals will have a serious re-acclimation to do. I'm not sure how much sense it would make to put corals through that if you don't have to.

2¢

 

[Centerline]

If only it worked that way. Burn in doesn't happen evenly. Blues go first. (I haven't seen anything that indicates the story is much different with T5's.)

Regardless if that, if you're saying you've grown corals successfully on 2 year old Radium bulbs, then you need to start offering to buy used Radium bulbs from people (or take them as donations), and stop buying new bulbs altogether. Seriously. ;)

Under a normal replacement regime, most folks will replace them about 1.5 times per year.....or every 9 months....depending on lighting schedule.

I can tell you that in my system, under dual 150w Radiums, corals would start reacting almost exactly on the 6 month mark – not happy.

I had to cut back my lighting hours to extend that 6 months out to something like 9 months. The tank was only lit 6-8 hours a day at that point instead of 12 as before.

Plus you have to think about bulb replacement time....if your bulbs are 2 years gone and you replace them, your corals will have a serious re-acclimation to do. I'm not sure how much sense it would make to put corals through that if you don't have to.

2¢

Actually it does work that way. 420 par is plenty to grow SPS - it may not be the fastest way to grow them but if that were my intent I would be using 6500k bulbs. Radiums are not the optimal light for SPS growth - but they look great and bring out some interesting colors in the coral. I stated that my practice is to change them every year or so based on par levels but that I HAD ran them as long as 2 years. I too had a fixture with a couple of the Radium 150 DE bulbs and they worked great but its an entirely different form factor than a 400 SE and the arc tube may be effected to a greater degree than in a larger form factor. The only time I changed them over the course of a year or so was to replace the bulbs that came with the fixture. The tank the 150s were over had a couple of massive montis and stylos and I never saw any notable growth issues. Most often - I do not run my MHs for more than 6 hours a day so that may help. Most folks should be using a par or lux meter to help determine the optimal time to change their bulbs. Corals will stop growing for numerous reasons and light alone is not a solid basis for diagnostics. Acclimation should be handled by raising or lowering the light - its not big deal and certainly not as big of a deal as dialing in LEDs can be for a new user. My Hydras HDs dam near went on ebay after a month of messing with them - too much control. I'm glad I didn't dump them now but at the time....

If people start sending em their old Radium MH bulbs Ill kick you a couple and you can try them yourself. ;)

 

[Fisk and chips]

Thanks for the Great info! Looking forward to this new build!

 

[Grey Guy]

Doesn't a 300 watt Led fixture use 50 more watts than a 250 watt metal halide?

 

[Cherub]

radeons g4 pro are 190w and hydra 52 hd is 130w. a 300w LED would have to be at least 3 feet long?

 

[Grey Guy]

Led is more efficient than Metal Halide, but metal halide is just on or off. Led lights drive me crazy. Everyday, "should I change the settings? A little more green, a little less red, not enough UV. I can't leave them alone. I love the color of 14K halide bulbs. Just need to keep a spare and change out once a year. But my point was, "watts is watts."

 

[WWC Verified Sponsor]

Say no to MH!! ;):)

 

[Centerline]

Say no to MH!! ;):)

Annnnd GO!

 

[A. grandis]

Nice talk about the bulbs here!!
I love metal halides and it's the very best light to grow corals, anemones and zoas.
All my zoas were exploding in color and size when I had them. They just love those bulbs!!
I had them running only for 4 or 6 hours a day with supplementary tubes back then.
I'm using an ATI T5 system, but I miss my halides!!

Grandis.