Tackling high phosphates

[PghReef]

Little background, I have a 90 gallon reef with sump that was set up a little over 2 years ago. Mixed reef with moderate stocking levels. When I set it up phosphates where always really low. About 6 months ago I noticed my phosphates climbing and pretty quickly. They went from around .05 to .45! Nitrates have always hovered around 20. In the beginning corals grew great but outside of a few colonies they've mostly stalled out the past year or more. I struggled with dinos on my sandbed for the longest time but finally got over them shortly before the phosphates started rising. I've theorized that I always had high phosphates but they tested low from being tied up in the dinos on my sand. Also noted I have great coralline growth, both the hard wncrusting Purple as well as a deep burgundy plating coralline I got from Boom corals many years ago. Other then that I have a tiny bit of hair algae inside my overflow box, a few small pieces of bubble algae tucked deep in crevices here and there that's almost unnoticeable, and that's it. Film on the glass needs cleaned every few days and no nuisance algae on my rockwork to really speak of.

I've been doing weekly 15 gallon WC for the last 6 months. This did almost nothing so a couple months ago I started dosing live phyto. This has dropped my nitrates to around 15 but not put a dent in my phosphates in the slightest. I run carbon in a reactor but havnt used gfo since my first tank 10 years ago. I had a terrible experience with it but it was before hanna checkers were the normal and I probably bottoms out phos without knowing it. I ordered some rowaphos to add to my carbon reactor.

How much rowaphos should I add? I know slow and steady to prevent shocking the system and corals. I'm assuming my sand and rock will leach for awhile. I'm thinking maybe 3 or 4 tablespoons added to my carbon and then keep testing and adjust accordingly?

 

[PghReef]

Picture of reef

 

[PghReef]

Bump

 

[bushdoc]

Love reading Reef2Reef post, you can learn a lot. I just digested an article about phosphate levels and coral calcification. Generally phosphates levels over 0.1 ppm slow significantly calcification rate exactly as it happened in your case- science meets practice!
Cannot help you with RowaPhos amount, but I would follow manufacturer recommendations and cut it in half.
Water changes are not very efficient method to control nutrients. Adding phytoplankton may help with many things, but it will also increase phosphate level. Feeding also influences phosphate levels, choose dry food with low phosphate levels or better frozen food, but rinse it 2-4 times before feeding your fish. Refugium with chaeto is another option.

 

[Uncle99]

When you struggle with Dino’s, this may have a direct effect to corals as they can be toxic, and generally move into the water column at night.

The tank looks great, I seen stunning tanks at more than .5ppm, these are older, stabler systems like yours.

If that number is true, sure, you can mop up a bit slowly but keep careful watch on the level, or your back to pest stuff.

Keep your numbers on point and let that system develop again post Dino’s, may take several months especially if they were chemically treated.

Again, I like your system, very nice.

 

[PghReef]

Love reading Reef2Reef post, you can learn a lot. I just digested an article about phosphate levels and coral calcification. Generally phosphates levels over 0.1 ppm slow significantly calcification rate exactly as it happened in your case- science meets practice!
Cannot help you with RowaPhos amount, but I would follow manufacturer recommendations and cut it in half.
Water changes are not very efficient method to control nutrients. Adding phytoplankton may help with many things, but it will also increase phosphate level. Feeding also influences phosphate levels, choose dry food with low phosphate levels or better frozen food, but rinse it 2-4 times before feeding your fish. Refugium with chaeto is another option.

I feed Larry's reef which is about as quality of a frozen you could get and only once a day. The tank was set up with about 1/3 liverock but 2/3 dry pukani. Im thinking the phosphates are from the pukani leaching. I've heard that to be a common issue with that type of dry rock.

Live Phyto is supposed to reduce nitrate and phosphate as it consumed them and grows before being skimmed out or consumed by organisms in the tank. I think I just have too much phosphate for it to make dent. I am thinking of adding an algae scrubber or turning my cryptic fuge into a regular refugium.

 

[PghReef]

When you struggle with Dino’s, this may have a direct effect to corals as they can be toxic, and generally move into the water column at night.

The tank looks great, I seen stunning tanks at more than .5ppm, these are older, stabler systems like yours.

If that number is true, sure, you can mop up a bit slowly but keep careful watch on the level, or your back to pest stuff.

Keep your numbers on point and let that system develop again post Dino’s, may take several months especially if they were chemically treated.

Again, I like your system, very nice.

Thank you for the compliments. I agree, for the longest time I thought maybe the dinos were poisoning my tank. I will say I did not have many snail deaths though, those turbos have been in there since day 1 and many of the Astrea as well. I ended up siphoning the sand bed from time to time, forgoing waterchanges, daily stirring, etc to try and rid my tank of them. I ended up doing a chemiclean treatment to make sure it wasn't a cyano which didn't do much. Somehow after probably a year or so they finally slowly went away whether it be from some intervention or just tank maturation and havnt been back in over 6 months. My goal is not to go ULNS as u see I have lps and gonis/zoas, but rather just get nitrates to around 5-10 and phosphates to .08-.12 or so.

I do have some growth, that Green slimer you see is probably my best growing acro. I can cut a thick branch off and within a week or so it already skins over and you can't tell I fragged it. I also have a Greg Carroll acroberry that does well and has nice colors. My Walt Disney grows and has great polyps but just Green. Montis, birdnests, and any stylo besides that large purple one usually slowly STN for some reason and other acros such as the pink lemonade encrusted ever so slightly and have just been stagnant for a year. I'm thinking if I can get my phosphate shown slowly over a few months to a .1 range maybe I can improve some color and growth?

 

[Uncle99]

Thank you for the compliments. I agree, for the longest time I thought maybe the dinos were poisoning my tank. I will say I did not have many snail deaths though, those turbos have been in there since day 1 and many of the Astrea as well. I ended up siphoning the sand bed from time to time, forgoing waterchanges, daily stirring, etc to try and rid my tank of them. I ended up doing a chemiclean treatment to make sure it wasn't a cyano which didn't do much. Somehow after probably a year or so they finally slowly went away whether it be from some intervention or just tank maturation and havnt been back in over 6 months. My goal is not to go ULNS as u see I have lps and gonis/zoas, but rather just get nitrates to around 5-10 and phosphates to .08-.12 or so.

I do have some growth, that Green slimer you see is probably my best growing acro. I can cut a thick branch off and within a week or so it already skins over and you can't tell I fragged it. I also have a Greg Carroll acroberry that does well and has nice colors. My Walt Disney grows and has great polyps but just Green. Montis, birdnests, and any stylo besides that large purple one usually slowly STN for some reason and other acros such as the pink lemonade encrusted ever so slightly and have just been stagnant for a year. I'm thinking if I can get my phosphate shown slowly over a few months to a .1 range maybe I can improve some color and growth?

Yup, I agree with your assessment and plan.
Maybe just half the original number over a few weeks, then pause and see where they go.

My birdsnest and digi’s where shrunk by a Dino’s, but recovered nicely over 6 months or so.

 

[bushdoc]

I feed Larry's reef which is about as quality of a frozen you could get and only once a day. The tank was set up with about 1/3 liverock but 2/3 dry pukani. Im thinking the phosphates are from the pukani leaching. I've heard that to be a common issue with that type of dry rock.

Live Phyto is supposed to reduce nitrate and phosphate as it consumed them and grows before being skimmed out or consumed by organisms in the tank. I think I just have too much phosphate for it to make dent. I am thinking of adding an algae scrubber or turning my cryptic fuge into a regular refugium.

I second an idea of adding algae scrubber or refugium.
One thing to ponder is your relative excess of phosphate in relation to nitrates. As you stated algae ( including phytoplankton) can reduce both of those nutrients, so chemical method of removing phosphates at least initially should also be considered.
Have you considered lowering phosphate with lanthanum chloride and then maintaining lower levels with refugium/algae scrubber?

 

[PghReef]

I second an idea of adding algae scrubber or refugium.
One thing to ponder is your relative excess of phosphate in relation to nitrates. As you stated algae ( including phytoplankton) can reduce both of those nutrients, so chemical method of removing phosphates at least initially should also be considered.
Have you considered lowering phosphate with lanthanum chloride and then maintaining lower levels with refugium/algae scrubber?

I purchased some rowaphos which is a gfo to add to my reactor with the carbon. I previously did not use any gfo on my system. I did try some phosguard. The phosphates dropped minimally and as I added more the corals looked ticked off even though phosphates weren't significantly lower. I took it off system as I know it's an aluminum based product and I've heard of the aluminum ticking off corals. I think the phosphates come from the dry rock used to start the system. Pukani is one of the dirtiest rocks you can use but is so much better in the long run for filtration, shape, scaping, and overall look in my option. It's a shame they don't sell it anymore. Downfall is it can take a loooong time to clear it of phosphates that were bound up in the dried rock. Looks like I'll need to grt my numbers down and then have a maintenance plan of either low dose gfo or a scrubber of some sort.

 

[PghReef]

Yup, I agree with your assessment and plan.
Maybe just half the original number over a few weeks, then pause and see where they go.

My birdsnest and digi’s where shrunk by a Dino’s, but recovered nicely over 6 months or so.

My digis grew great but then the skin slowly bleached out even though I had great PE. Then the polyps would slowly recede as well until the coral was dead and grew algae. I'd see a polyp try to come back from time to time but eventually they'd all die. Even the large purple stylo was almost dead, I had to cut off the whole top of the colony off and then slowly the encrusted base started to come back and grow until it branched up again. Took a long time.

I think I'm going in the right direction and have been careful to try and not overreact and throw everything and the sink at the tank. Its hard but ive done my best to let things mature and work their way out and stabilize. I don't understand how some people set up a tank and it just takes off from day 1 with minimal problems, I've been working for over 2 years trying to get things dialed in right where the tank can run smoothly with minimal worries and input from me other than normal maintenance.

 

[dstockwell]

I have also found phosguard to not do anything

 

[Uncle99]

My digis grew great but then the skin slowly bleached out even though I had great PE. Then the polyps would slowly recede as well until the coral was dead and grew algae. I'd see a polyp try to come back from time to time but eventually they'd all die. Even the large purple stylo was almost dead, I had to cut off the whole top of the colony off and then slowly the encrusted base started to come back and grow until it branched up again. Took a long time.

I think I'm going in the right direction and have been careful to try and not overreact and throw everything and the sink at the tank. Its hard but ive done my best to let things mature and work their way out and stabilize. I don't understand how some people set up a tank and it just takes off from day 1 with minimal problems, I've been working for over 2 years trying to get things dialed in right where the tank can run smoothly with minimal worries and input from me other than normal maintenance.

People don’t have great tanks to start. All good systems are aged. Your at that point and the pic frankly looks good.

Many people might wish to have a tank like yours, if some things are dying, it can only be light, flow, chemistry or age.

So rule out age, it’s 2 years.

Digis do well under 150-175 par, I’m not sure your lighting.

Keep your waters stable as obviously you already do.
Yup, I’d slowly lower phosphate. I’ve had super luck with the Hanna UL Checker in PPB if that’s possible, you need to manage low levels and this checker certainly does that.

High phosphate levels can result in poor growth and extension, maybe some browning out, so I’d taken that only for the next few months.

Again, you’ve clearly come along way, just a little to go.

You need to be 8-12 months past Dino’s for correction.

But it comes, faster when chemistry is absolutely unchanging at all times. Always seek ways to improve that.

 

[PghReef]

People don’t have great tanks to start. All good systems are aged. Your at that point and the pic frankly looks good.

Many people might wish to have a tank like yours, if some things are dying, it can only be light, flow, chemistry or age.

So rule out age, it’s 2 years.

Digis do well under 150-175 par, I’m not sure your lighting.

Keep your waters stable as obviously you already do.
Yup, I’d slowly lower phosphate. I’ve had super luck with the Hanna UL Checker in PPB if that’s possible, you need to manage low levels and this checker certainly does that.

High phosphate levels can result in poor growth and extension, maybe some browning out, so I’d taken that only for the next few months.

Again, you’ve clearly come along way, just a little to go.

You need to be 8-12 months past Dino’s for correction.

But it comes, faster when chemistry is absolutely unchanging at all times. Always seek ways to improve that.

Thank you for the compliments and advice. Your tank looks great as well, great growth. I added only 1 tablespoon of rowaphos to my reactor, feel it's a little light but I rather err on the side or caution and go super slow than shock the system.

Flow for the sps is definitely enough. Polyps always moving and changing directions. Sometimes I think it's too much for my lps and have been hoping as sps grow they'll shield some of the Flow from them creating some lower flow zones.

Lighting I really need to get a par meter. I figure my lighting had to be good since the 1st 6 months I saw crazy growth on all my montis and birdnest as well as the green slimer. I have 4 t5 bulbs and 2 kessils that ramp up to 50 or 60%.

Chemistry I've kept pretty stable. 1.026 SG, alk around 8, CA around 430, Mag 1400, nitrate 15, phos too high lol. I dont measure ph as I find it an impossible number to chase. I also use the hanna UL in PPB. Early on and through dinos it kept reading in the 20-30 ppb range. After dinos it slowly went up to 70, 90, 110, then 130-150ppb where it has been for months now.


I definitely feel like I'm close and my perseverance will pay off eventually. I've driven my pair wife crazy the past 2 years as I constantly research and try to troubleshoot. Always testing, filling my tip off, adjusting dosers, etc lol.

 

[PghReef]

Almost 24 hours after a 15 gallon WC and the start of rowaphos. Phosphorus dropped from .41 to .32. Hard to say if any is from the WC but in the past WC never seemed to correlate to a dip in my numbers.

 

[PghReef]

Almost a month later and my phosphates are at .28. Been changing the media every 2 weeks with 1T of rowaphos. Testing 24 hours after change shows a drop and then it levels off until I change it again. Going slow for sure, once I get to .15 or so I think I'm gonna give it a pause and see where things go.

I will say since the drop I have noticed some improvements. My Pink lemonade has finally started encrusting a little after a year of dormancy. The color also changed from the brown/Green back to a yellow skin finally! No Branching yet but I'm hopeful.