Tangs developing HLLE 50 days into QT/fallow

[Grigs]

I have a Chevron and PT that have HLLE starting to show. They have been in the 75 gallon QT for 50 days with my PBT, who is stressing them. The DT has been fallow for 50 days, and I am seriously considering terminating the fallow period early and accepting the remote risk of having the rare 76 day strain of ich. Ich is why the DT is fallow, btw.

I read some threads and have removed the carbon bags that I was running in the HOB filter. Perhaps that will help. My concern is that keeping them in the QT with the PBT is proving to be too stressful, leading to the HLLE. They made it through the Cupramine without my noticing it, so I don't believe that it was a significant factor. The DT is 160 gal (Waterbox 230.6) so they would have a lot more swimming room, caves, and grazing... Should be a MUCH lower stress environment.

What are your thoughts? I don't want this condition to worsen, particularly if we are dealing with a low probability ich remaining.

Should I wait and see if the condition improves without the Carbon, first? I really don't want it to worsen... Have also ordered Selcon. I feel awful that it got this bad before I spotted it, but I have only been running the blue leds to try to minimize stress. When the wife asked what it was I flipped on the white lights and nearly wet myself...

Thanks for your help

 

[pdxmonkeyboy]

i had some tangs develop that when i added cheap carbon in a bag that was tumbling. super fine carbon dust was in the water, i think it clogs their sensory pores and that is when it starts.

Anyways, do a water change to reduce nitrates and feed them really high quality food.

I added zoecon and beta glucan (amazon capsules) to frozen food, also a squirt of vitamin C. it was gone in two weeks..

 

[Grigs]

Awesome! I will give it a shot. They have been on LRS Reef Frenzy and Herbivore Frenzy with Hikaari small and seaweed extreme pellets. I THOUGHT they were on good food... lol. I bet it was the carbon. I had two small bags in the top of the HOB filter. Will order the beta glucan and zoecon. Thanks, Brian!

 

[Big G]

+1 on the Zoecon.

 

[HotRocks]

+1 on zoecon as well.

I'd leave them in QT as well. The "stress" probably doesn't have much to do with the HLLE. It's likely from the carbon, or from the copper and carbon dust exacerbated it.

 

[Grigs]

Thanks, guys. I'll leave them in. I checked on Amazon for Zoecon and I found Kent Marine Zoe. Same thing?

 

[Big G]

Thanks, guys. I'll leave them in. I checked on Amazon for Zoecon and I found Kent Marine Zoe. Same thing?

Yep. That's it.

 

[Grigs]

Awesome. It's all on they way, then. : )

 

[HotRocks]

This is what you want:

https://www.chewy.com/kent-marine-z...ZeuwpWUGDdnmRfdwNTLN1qOhop5uKesRoCSqwQAvD_BwE

 

[Mastiffsrule]

i had some tangs develop that when i added cheap carbon in a bag that was tumbling. super fine carbon dust was in the water, i think it clogs their sensory pores and that is when it starts.

Anyways, do a water change to reduce nitrates and feed them really high quality food.

I added zoecon and beta glucan (amazon capsules) to frozen food, also a squirt of vitamin C. it was gone in two weeks..

I had same thing happen. I have been using selcon. That good or switch to zoe?

 

[pdxmonkeyboy]

my fish smell selcon and pretty much give me the finger.

People need to start to realize how AMAZING beta glucan is. Everytime I mention it to fish folks they just kind of say "huh". There are tons of peer reviewed journal articles out there about boosting immune systems with BG.

If it can keep fish in tightly cramped aquaculture pens healthy it can do wonders for your aquarium.

google beta glucan fish.

 

[Grigs]

Thx HotRocks. I'll order that, too.. lol. Btw, just googled the difference b/t Zoe and Zoecon. Apparently they are complementary... will give them both a go

 

[Big G]

my fish smell selcon and pretty much give me the finger.

People need to start to realize how AMAZING beta glucan is. Everytime I mention it to fish folks they just kind of say "huh". There are tons of peer reviewed journal articles out there about boosting immune systems with BG.

If it can keep fish in tightly cramped aquaculture pens healthy it can do wonders for your aquarium.

google beta glucan fish.

Good read on BG: https://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/9/aafeature

 

[AquaLifeStudio]

Curious about your QT procedure with cupramine, how long were the fish in their QT tank before you started dosing it? How quickly did you ramp up to therapeutic levels or did you add these fish after reaching therapeutic levels. How long did you use it?

Did you transfer the fish to a clean QT after finishing the Cupramine treatment?

Depending on your answers, I would suggest starting up using Cupramine again and keep it at therapeutic levels for the entire time the fish are in QT.

Discontinue use of whatever carbon you have been using as that may just be the cause of the HLLE.

 

[HB AL]

I have a yellow, purple, naso and hippo in my tank, I run carbon in my tank 24/7 and they are all very healthy and have no signs of hlle on any of them. The yellow tang is going on 3 years, hippo 2.5 years, purple and naso 2 years. I feed them Hikari frozen cubes. I don’t quarantine, so I highly doubt it’s the carbon, probably the cupramine started it. I would keep a close eye on them while they are in the qt and see if it continues to get worse. Most quarantine tanks don’t have prestine water, so that coupled with the cupramine might be the reason. It doesn’t seem all that bad yet but you definitely don’t want it to keep getting worse or it will never heal completely.

 

[AquaLifeStudio]

Carbon! There's quite a bit of hobby wide evidence suggesting that its carbon that contributes to HLLE. But not just any carbon, the types that are considered cheap and produce a lot of dust.

I use a high quality Rox 0.8 carbon from Bulkreefsupply and have had no issues with HLLE with any of the tangs that I have kept while using it. I also pre-rinse what carbon I use in my reactor before putting it online.

 

[Grigs]

Curious about your QT procedure with cupramine, how long were the fish in their QT tank before you started dosing it? How quickly did you ramp up to therapeutic levels or did you add these fish after reaching therapeutic levels. How long did you use it?

Did you transfer the fish to a clean QT after finishing the Cupramine treatment?

Depending on your answers, I would suggest starting up using Cupramine again and keep it at therapeutic levels for the entire time the fish are in QT.

Discontinue use of whatever carbon you have been using as that may just be the cause of the HLLE.

I started Cupramine immediately since I was adding my PBT due to Ich. The other tangs were new and the timing just worked out. I ramped up dosage per the instructions, which was over 3 days. I kept them in Cupramine for 2 weeks, then moved them to a sterile tank (125g) while I sterilized the 75 QT and moved them back in 36 hrs or so later.

All carbon is out and 85% WC performed. I have acquired Copper Power since, so I could get them back in Copper and have it be a bit easier to maintain, but from reading HotRocks QT thread I am a bit concerned about prolonged therapeutic Copper...

I've got the Zoecon arriving today, so I think I may give that a chance to see if there is any improvement first.

Thanks very much for your input!!!

 

[Grigs]

I have a yellow, purple, naso and hippo in my tank, I run carbon in my tank 24/7 and they are all very healthy and have no signs of hlle on any of them. The yellow tang is going on 3 years, hippo 2.5 years, purple and naso 2 years. I feed them Hikari frozen cubes. I don’t quarantine, so I highly doubt it’s the carbon, probably the cupramine started it. I would keep a close eye on them while they are in the qt and see if it continues to get worse. Most quarantine tanks don’t have prestine water, so that coupled with the cupramine might be the reason. It doesn’t seem all that bad yet but you definitely don’t want it to keep getting worse or it will never heal completely.

Yeah, the nitrates build up quickly. Ammonia stays at < 0.02 on the badges (have 2) but I wind up doing big water changes every 3-4 days to keep NO3 "in control" (<75ppm)

Hoping the BG, Zoecon, Zoe, and removing the carbon will make a big difference.

 

[S-t-r-e-t-c-h]

Good read on BG: https://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/9/aafeature

I learned something today. thank you & @Brian Bieger

 

[SJ Blane]

I was totally unaware of beta glucan and it's benefits. Great info in the advanced aquarists article!