Tank/Chaeto starving

[helljack6]

Hey everyone,

So my 115 (90 DT+ 55g sump half full at all times) has been up since January of this year and it "seems" like I go from having nutrients and the tank looks great, to where I'm at now, 0s across the board and my chaeto is barely living. I've read some previous threads that appear to have the same issue, but I'm not completely sure. I broadcast feed 1cube frozen mysis thawed in a 100ml container of tank water with either acropower, fuel, or another coral fuel once a day. My parameters are fairly within normal with the exception of 14dkh which has been consistent since the birth of the tank.

Just trying to get a handle on why I go through swings of either having nutrients that register and then not. I skim 24/7, run AC in a dual reactor along with phosphate remover and Seachem Matrix in a third reactor along with Chaeto and calurpa in my refugium. I'm Dosing iron at 10ml a week. Just a bit confused here, any help or suggestions are greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[eatbreakfast]

Why not limit how much you skim, maybe put the skimmer on a timer and skim for 18 or even 12hrs a day.

 

[helljack6]

Why not limit how much you skim, maybe put the skimmer on a timer and skim for 18 or even 12hrs a day.

I was thinking about doing this and skimmer at night when my refugium light comes on.

 

[Subsea]

Consider this, your skimmer is removing food for corals & macro. GFO removes phosphate, which is food for coral and macro.

Unplug your skimmer and discontinue GFO. Continue using GAC. Continue dosing iron.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/2...m-on-top-with-30g-ecosystem-mud-macro.421526/

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/wet-salty-for-christmas-2017.428100/

 

[helljack6]

Consider this, your skimmer is removing food for corals & macro. GFO removes phosphate, which is food for coral and macro.

Unplug your skimmer and discontinue GFO. Continue using GAC. Continue dosing iron.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/2...m-on-top-with-30g-ecosystem-mud-macro.421526/

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/wet-salty-for-christmas-2017.428100/

Not using GFO, will continue using GAC and have unplugged skimmer. Thanks.

 

[Subsea]

@helljack6

Welcome to the reefing addiction. Always good to get more vets here. I have some IT background. I have been reefing since 1971 after four years in the Air Force. The more I learn, the more I realize how much there is too learn. Just call me “Sponge Bob”. My handle, Subsea, comes from a 35 year career in deep water offshore drilling as a Subsea Engineer” on underwater blowout preventers, including Subsea control systems which involved IT interface. I designed, installed and maintained electronic/hydraulic BOP control systems. Since I have embraced natural filtration techniques, I have come to respect how reefing is done on a wild reef and have integrated many of those methods into my husbandry.

You should start a tank journal thread, so that details of your system are in one place.
Laissez les bonne temps roulee,
Patrick

With respect to turning skimmer off, a word of caution. During lights out, all photosynthetic organisms consume oxygen and give off carbon dioxide which causes pH to drop. PH fluctuations are not the concern, low oxygen in bulk water is the concern. Depending on how you oxygenate the water determines everything. My surface skimmer assist with removing scum thereby allowing better gas exchange in display tank, then as water tumbles into first “wet/dry chamber of refugium, gas exchange is further enhanced. At the surface of display tank, I provide aggressive circulation to further enhance gas exchange.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/wet-salty-for-christmas-2017.428100/

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/2...m-on-top-with-30g-ecosystem-mud-macro.421526/

 

[pecan2phat]

Agreed, you might want to start with just turning off your skimmer during the day during your photoperiod. Not saying reef tanks cannot exist without a skimmer for O2 saturation (I run a tank without a skimmer) but the skimmer definitely helps to oxygenate the closed system. You can also consider tuning the skimmer so that it skims very dry which would help with the ULNS situation but keeps the skimmer on.
One old salt had suggested to me years ago when I was having all sorts of problem with my Chaeto growth when all possible problems were looked at and corrected or non-existent was to use a vitamin/mineral supplement Koralle VM
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/kora...MI4YvXwef73AIVmo-zCh2-1QUbEAQYASABEgKWkfD_BwE

 

[Subsea]

Agreed, you might want to start with just turning off your skimmer during the day during your photoperiod. Not saying reef tanks cannot exist without a skimmer for O2 saturation (I run a tank without a skimmer) but the skimmer definitely helps to oxygenate the closed system. You can also consider tuning the skimmer so that it skims very dry which would help with the ULNS situation but keeps the skimmer on.
One old salt had suggested to me years ago when I was having all sorts of problem with my Chaeto growth when all possible problems were looked at and corrected or non-existent was to use a vitamin/mineral supplement Koralle VM
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/kora...MI4YvXwef73AIVmo-zCh2-1QUbEAQYASABEgKWkfD_BwE

This product has the correct constituents for macro growth. Thanks for the link.

 

[cracker]

Helljack You stated in the 1st post You use phosphate remover. What do you use? Do your nutrient levels raise & fall then repeat?
Could you post some current test numbers & what type test kits do You use?
May I suggest turning off the GAC, Po4 remover & iron dosing Keep your skimmer going. When it's all off & you have current No3 &Po4 readings. If zero or very low nutrients then dose a "little" No3& po4. I use Spectracide stump remover & Seachem Phosphorous . Again just a little & carefully test. I predict the cheato will grow quickly.
This was suggested to me & it works well.

 

[medicw131]

My $0.02 here, but you could probably remove whatever you're using as a phosphate remover. That DKH is way high also, especially if you have lower nutrients. DKH can be higher as long as corals are fed appropriately (like a higher PO4 and NO3 level). But 14 is probably a bit too high. You may want to consider dropping it to a lower level, like 7-8. Just don't do it rapidly. Also, how many fish do you have? I've found that adding fish is beneficial as well. Feed the ecosystem and it will thrive.

 

[teller]

@Subsea Brightwell Aquatics has a new product for chaeto. ChaetoGro.
http://brightwellaquatics.com/products/chaeto-gro.php

 

[Subsea]

@Subsea Brightwell Aquatics has a new product for chaeto. ChaetoGro.
http://brightwellaquatics.com/products/chaeto-gro.php

This doesn’t have any of the B complex vitamins. While it may work, I am interested in combining amino dosing with trace mineral addittion. I want B complex in the cocktail.

 

[helljack6]

Thank you everyone for your feedback. I'll do what I can to give you the best image of my system.

Tank Age: January 2018/8.5 months
Water source: Treated Tap (accounts for high dkh reading. recently acquired RO/DI unit and slowly converting over to full RO/DI)
Nitrate test: 0ppm tested with API
Phosphate test: 0ppm test with API
Fish count: 10-12 (4x Chromis, scopis tang, yellow damsel, coral beauty, clown fish, 6 line wrasse, xmas wrasse, pink spotted goby)
Inverts: 2xRBTA (source and clone), Rock Flower Anenome
CUC: snails, red and blue leg crabs, sand fighting conch
Corals: Mixed tank of softies, LPS and small handful of SPS (acros, montis, birdnest); GSP, Kenya Tree, Pulsing Xenia, Frogspawn, Leathers, Ricordias
Light Schedule: Orbit Loop Light set 12 hour ramp cycle starting at 6am and ending at 6pm, T5 4 Bulb fixture on a timer and on from8-5
Flow: Jebao RW40 set to power level 1, tidal setting, Korilla 800gph powerhead
Return pump: Jebao DC 12000/15000 set at power level 4
Drains: dual 1" guarded open drains
Additional: set on the same timer that my refugium light comes on, running a dual channel air pump to a wooden stone feeding micro/nano bubbles into the intake of the return pump
Current status: Simplicity 240 DC skimmer is currently offline (just unplugged), media reactors currently running (completely removed third reactor containing seachem Matrix for the time being due to a flow issue)

Yes, as long as the system remains as it is now, I will register nutrient levels within the next day or so. Once i plug everything back in, my nutrients will drop back to where they currently are, 0/undetectable.

Please let me know what else I can provide you to better help you help me.

 

[cracker]

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Subsea]

Please better explain how tap water is treated. In particular, what treatment raises alkalinity to 14.

PS. I use ground water from Trinity Aquifier with a TDS > 950ppm and an alkalinity of 8. It goes straight into tank.

 

[medicw131]

Yes! Phasing out tap is a good thing and a pretty significant process. As a noob, I thought I could get away by only using treated tap water. Then the diatoms came and everything was UGLY and nothing grew. Turns out my tap had high silicate, which is what led me to have a bad diatom problem. I had plenty other problems, but those were all newbie mistakes. Investing in RODI unit was the best thing I could have done for my tank. At that time, I did a handful of about 20% water changes twice a week to bring the bad stuff down.

Anyway, story time over with lol. I'd definitely feed a little heavier as well. You noted that you feed one cube of frozen with some Acropower. Grab some Hikari Marine S or Seaweed Extreme pellet food. Then it's easy to just grab a little pinch and drop it in a few times a day. I've started doing just that, feeding either of those foods about 3 times a day, along with feeding a cube of frozen mysis in the afternoon, and have noticed a HUGE difference in coral growth, chaeto growth, and fish aggression.

 

[helljack6]

Please better explain how tap water is treated. In particular, what treatment raises alkalinity to 14.

PS. I use ground water from Trinity Aquifier with a TDS > 950ppm and an alkalinity of 8. It goes straight into tank.

Water is treated with Seachem Prime, comes from city supply at 14dkh right from the faucet.

 

[dwest]

I’m not understanding if you are using a phosphate remover or not. If you are, I would remove it and also continue with your ro conversion.

 

[helljack6]

Just tested the water's dkh, it's a little lower than 14 right now. I figured I would test it as I was starting to see some little white nubs taking shape on my birdnest coral. My RO/DI comes out at about 3.5dkh and i'm swapping out about 3-5 gallons a day due to how long it takes to produce and that roughly matches my rate of evaporation, and I don't want to shock the system.

 

[helljack6]

I’m not understanding if you are using a phosphate remover or not. If you are, I would remove it and also continue with your ro conversion.

I am using two bags of Purigen along with a silicate remover in the second reactor of my current dual reactor setup. First reactor is running standard filter floss on top of ROX 0.8