Tank Cycle ammonia levels stuck at 0.25

[blueberryblue]

Hey all, Im running a 40g breeder with an active 75g skimmer, 1 HOB filter, 1 internal shark filter, 25lbs dry rock, 15lbs live rock, and 40lbs of live sand. I am using rodi water, ph is 8.1, salinity is 1.025.

I started the cycle off using Dr. Tim's fishless cycle, accidentally dosing ammonia to 8ppm. I used dr tims nitrifying bacteria that day and watched ammonia go down to 0.20 and nitrite go from 4ppm to 0 over the course of 7 days. At this point, I was reading 0 nitrite and nitrate was at 5. I have an API test kit and have read about the kits being stuck at 0.25 if there's a slight amount of ammonia in the water (I presume at this point from organics in my dry rock) and on day 8 I also bought more nitrifying bacteria to see if I would see a change in the parameters within the next few days. It didn't. On day 10 I did a 25 percent water change and I bought a captive-bred clownfish after the parameters didn't change. I've been feeding him mysis shrimp and pellets and he seems to be living quite comfortably. It is day 15 now and I've been dosing prime to be safe. I've been testing everyday (I will continue to do this to make sure ammonia doesn't get over .50ppm) , but I am still seeing 0.25 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and nitrate has only gone up to 10ppm and honestly the color looks only slightly darker than the same color as before. It just doesn't make sense to me that the ammonia hasn't gone up or down after adding more bacteria or a clownfish, after it literally processed 8ppm+ ammonia in only 7 days.

Any one have any ideas? I am aware that cycling can take a very long time but I added a hefty dose of nitrifying bacteria and the nitrate not going up much from 8-10 seems weird (though it could be from my skimmer). I haven't even seen an ammonia increase since I added the clown. What do you guys think, am I cycled and can I start SLOWLY adding livestock? I'm considering buying another test kit.

Thank you all for any advice or thoughts, it's much appreciated!

 

[Dan_P]

Hey all, Im running a 40g breeder with an active 75g skimmer, 1 HOB filter, 1 internal shark filter, 25lbs dry rock, 15lbs live rock, and 40lbs of live sand. I am using rodi water, ph is 8.1, salinity is 1.025.

I started the cycle off using Dr. Tim's fishless cycle, accidentally dosing ammonia to 8ppm. I used dr tims nitrifying bacteria that day and watched ammonia go down to 0.20 and nitrite go from 4ppm to 0 over the course of 7 days. At this point, I was reading 0 nitrite and nitrate was at 5. I have an API test kit and have read about the kits being stuck at 0.25 if there's a slight amount of ammonia in the water (I presume at this point from organics in my dry rock) and on day 8 I also bought more nitrifying bacteria to see if I would see a change in the parameters within the next few days. It didn't. On day 10 I did a 25 percent water change and I bought a captive-bred clownfish after the parameters didn't change. I've been feeding him mysis shrimp and pellets and he seems to be living quite comfortably. It is day 15 now and I've been dosing prime to be safe. I've been testing everyday (I will continue to do this to make sure ammonia doesn't get over .50ppm) , but I am still seeing 0.25 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and nitrate has only gone up to 10ppm and honestly the color looks only slightly darker than the same color as before. It just doesn't make sense to me that the ammonia hasn't gone up or down after adding more bacteria or a clownfish, after it literally processed 8ppm+ ammonia in only 7 days.

Any one have any ideas? I am aware that cycling can take a very long time but I added a hefty dose of nitrifying bacteria and the nitrate not going up much from 8-10 seems weird (though it could be from my skimmer). I haven't even seen an ammonia increase since I added the clown. What do you guys think, am I cycled and can I start SLOWLY adding livestock? I'm considering buying another test kit.

Thank you all for any advice or thoughts, it's much appreciated!

The API test has an ambiguous 0 ppm, looking like 0.25 ppm. Putting in another batch of nitrifying bacteria and not seeing a change in ammonia level is pretty good information that the tank can deal with ammonia. It seems your system is cycled.

 

[olonmv]

Don’t worry @brandon429, I gotcha.

OP, your tank is ready. Cycle isn’t stuck. API is notorious for reading above zero ammonia when in actuality there is none. Invest in a set of quality test kits such as salifert, Red Sea, hanna to name a few.

 

[Garf]

I would not use the “prime” any further. Looks like your tank is doing just fine. A pic of the tank would be nice.

 

[brandon429]

On the note of prime use

5.5.3.2.1. Prime, Safe and Ammonia

Seachem's Prime and Safe water conditioners do NOT detoxify ammonia, not even temporarily.

aquariumscience.org

Dan / Tarichas work referenced above

 

[olonmv]

I would not use the “prime” any further. Looks like your tank is doing just fine. A pic of the tank would be nice.

Keep the prime. It helped me when my tank would get spontaneous bacterial blooms. One capful in a evo 13.5 and within hours it be gone.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Keep the prime. It helped me when my tank would get spontaneous bacterial blooms. One capful in a evo 13.5 and within hours it be gone.

You are suggesting Seachem Prime eliminated a bacterial bloom?

I’m skeptical. Any proposal on why that would happen?

 

[olonmv]

You are suggesting Seachem Prime eliminated a bacterial bloom?

I’m skeptical. Any proposal on why that would happen?

Yes, as a matter of fact, I am. I have nothing to offer other than that it worked for me. It may have been coincidence but every time I got murky milkish water (new, dry everything tank), a capful of this and it would go away within a 24 hr span. If I didn’t add anything it would usually clear up by day 2. Haven’t had a need for it as of late. My tank finally got a bit more mature since.

edit: FWIW, the argument may be that it didn’t help anything but, my counter would be that it didn’t hurt anything either.

 

[brandon429]

disease preps need to be ran here. All new cycling is about disease preps for fish: the actual cycle establishment has been thought out for us already by bottle bac engineers. time to read for 2 days straight in Jays disease forum, before adding fish which this tank certainly can carry right now.

 

[nereefpat]

Welcome to R2R!

I haven't even seen an ammonia increase since I added the clown. What do you guys think, am I cycled and can I start SLOWLY adding livestock? I'm considering buying another test kit.

I agree you're cycled. I probably would spend my money on other things than a different ammonia kit. The API is fine for cycling purposes, and you likely won't need an ammonia kit in the near future.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yes, as a matter of fact, I am. I have nothing to offer other than that it worked for me. It may have been coincidence but every time I got murky milkish water (new, dry everything tank), a capful of this and it would go away within a 24 hr span. If I didn’t add anything it would usually clear up by day 2. Haven’t had a need for it as of late. My tank finally got a bit more mature since.

edit: FWIW, the argument may be that it didn’t help anything but, my counter would be that it didn’t hurt anything either.

I personally would not claim an unexpected effect from such observations since you do not know what would have happened without it, and in this case the effect seems improbable to me, but at least I understand the comment now.

 

[olonmv]

I personally would not claim an unexpected effect from such observations since you do not know what would have happened without it, and in this case the effect seems improbable to me, but at least I understand the comment now.

But I did know what happened without it. Like I mentioned, it may be anecdotal but, when I did nothing, the bloom would last about 24hrs longer than when I did, when I would add the capful it was usually gone between 12-24 hrs. It wasn’t an unexpected effect. I’d add the capful with the expectation of the bloom clearing up and when I did it would.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

But I did know what happened without it. Like I mentioned, it may be anecdotal but, when I did nothing, the bloom would last about 24hrs longer than when I did, when I would add the capful it was usually gone between 12-24 hrs. It wasn’t an unexpected effect. I’d add the capful with the expectation of the bloom clearing up and when I did it would.

No, you don’t really know what would have happened in any given instance. It’s like folks taking Vitamin C and thinking it sped up recovering from a cold. It takes careful studies to show that effect (which seems to not hold up under careful study).

Clearing turbidity is an unexpected effect based on any mention by Seachem, by my imperfect knowledge of its contents and claims, or by other users of it that I have ever seen. Seachem has a very low threshold for making claims about Prime. They advertise based on only a few user reports of effects with no known mechanism (nitrate effect, for example) and if Prime had had such an effect over the many years it had been marketed, I would expect them to do it here..

 

[olonmv]

No, you don’t really know what would have happened in any given instance. It’s like folks taking Vitamin C and thinking it sped up recovering from a cold. It takes careful studies to show that effect (which seems to not hold up under careful study).

Clearing turbidity is an unexpected effect based on any mention by Seachem, by my imperfect knowledge of its contents and claims, or by other users of it that I have ever seen. Seachem has a very low threshold for making claims about Prime. They advertise based on only a few user reports of effects with no known mechanism (nitrate effect, for example) and if Prime had had such an effect over the many years it had been marketed, I would expect them to do it here..

sooooo sorry, got my seachem products crossed. Stability is what I used. I thought prime sounded right given the context. Again, my apologies.

 

[olonmv]

‍

 

[vaguelyreeflike]

Hey all, Im running a 40g breeder with an active 75g skimmer, 1 HOB filter, 1 internal shark filter, 25lbs dry rock, 15lbs live rock, and 40lbs of live sand. I am using rodi water, ph is 8.1, salinity is 1.025.

I started the cycle off using Dr. Tim's fishless cycle, accidentally dosing ammonia to 8ppm. I used dr tims nitrifying bacteria that day and watched ammonia go down to 0.20 and nitrite go from 4ppm to 0 over the course of 7 days. At this point, I was reading 0 nitrite and nitrate was at 5. I have an API test kit and have read about the kits being stuck at 0.25 if there's a slight amount of ammonia in the water (I presume at this point from organics in my dry rock) and on day 8 I also bought more nitrifying bacteria to see if I would see a change in the parameters within the next few days. It didn't. On day 10 I did a 25 percent water change and I bought a captive-bred clownfish after the parameters didn't change. I've been feeding him mysis shrimp and pellets and he seems to be living quite comfortably. It is day 15 now and I've been dosing prime to be safe. I've been testing everyday (I will continue to do this to make sure ammonia doesn't get over .50ppm) , but I am still seeing 0.25 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and nitrate has only gone up to 10ppm and honestly the color looks only slightly darker than the same color as before. It just doesn't make sense to me that the ammonia hasn't gone up or down after adding more bacteria or a clownfish, after it literally processed 8ppm+ ammonia in only 7 days.

Any one have any ideas? I am aware that cycling can take a very long time but I added a hefty dose of nitrifying bacteria and the nitrate not going up much from 8-10 seems weird (though it could be from my skimmer). I haven't even seen an ammonia increase since I added the clown. What do you guys think, am I cycled and can I start SLOWLY adding livestock? I'm considering buying another test kit.

Thank you all for any advice or thoughts, it's much appreciated!

Seachem Prime can also interfere with API ammonia tests causing a false positive, it’s something I’ve witnessed myself and done many tests with. Test ammonia 12hr after dosing Prime, or upgrade your kit to something like Fluval, Salifert etc.

 

[blueberryblue]

Thanks guys for all the helpful discussion!

I'll get a red sea test for ammonia and add a fish every couple weeks to be safe. I'm specifically buying from quarantined fish places like Dr. Reefs so hoping everything goes good. I feel comfortable reducing the prime dosage over time and watching for any dangerous signs in my fish.

EDIT: The article posted about prime use was quite the interesting read. If there's any scientific indication I'm wasting my money such as that article, then I'll take the advice and use it elsewhere.

 

[brandon429]

that test kit is going to mislead you, we collect red sea ammonia alert misreads out to nine pages so far in another thread


you don't need to test for ammonia or nitrite again for the life of this tank. fish you add can't overpower those two. if a fish dies just remove it for easy ammonia control. alive, they can't overpower your rock surface area. no ongoing ammonia testing needed

after you implement a fish disease protocol, any fish you add stay alive relative to the quality of that protocol. your ammonia control in the tank won't factor going forward, because its all handled. cycles can't stick, stall, or retro back into nonperforming in reefing due to the ways we all copy each other's setup scale.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

sooooo sorry, got my seachem products crossed. Stability is what I used. I thought prime sounded right given the context. Again, my apologies.

OK, no problem. I can see how adding bacteria may impact existing bacteria in a number of ways.

 

[Akreefnewguy]

Don’t worry @brandon429, I gotcha.

OP, your tank is ready. Cycle isn’t stuck. API is notorious for reading above zero ammonia when in actuality there is none. Invest in a set of quality test kits such as salifert, Red Sea, hanna to name a few.

Research hanna first holy crap it takes me 15 minutes to run a nitrate test.