Targeted PH and Alkalinity balancing Act

[BroccoliFarmer]

Looking for you PH / Alkalinity gurus to give me some advice. I am REALLY struggling with PH. Last night, my PH went all the way down to 7.6 (YIKES). I ran an airline outside with an Eheim pump literally pushing the air into my skimmer as well as a diffuser ball in my overflow to try and maximize outside air into the tank. My alk is a little low right now, about 8.2 but i have bumped up my kalkwasser doser to bring it back in line to my targeted number..let's say arbitrarily 8.8. I have been told that high 8's is the right plae to be.

Here is my question: I have seen people say to use Kalkwasser to bring up your PH. However, if I am using my kalkwasser to bring up PH, what is more important....keeping an 8.8 alkalinity or a higher ph. Given how low my PH is dropping at night..i am going to assuming I need to pump a boat load of Kalk into my system to get my PH higher..which will then make my alk too high.

any thoughts?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

First, I’d be sure the pH measurement is accurate by calibrating again.

Then I’d do this aeration test, and we can advise further after that:

pH and the Reef Aquarium - REEFEDITION

by Randy Holmes-Farley For many aquarists, pH is not something that they have much experience with aside from their aquarium. For many, pH is almost a black box measurement: something to be considered, but whose physical meaning makes little sense to them. This article will Read more here...

www.reefedition.com

The Aeration Test

Some of the possible causes of low pH listed above require an effort to diagnose. Problems 3 and 4 are quite common, and here is a way to distinguish them. Remove a cup of tank water and measure its pH. Then aerate it for an hour with an airstone using outside air. Its pH should rise if it is unusually low for the measured alkalinity (Figure 2). Then repeat the same experiment on a new cup of water using inside air. If its pH also rises, then the aquarium’s pH will rise simply with more aeration because it is only the aquarium that contains excess carbon dioxide. If the pH does not rise in the cup (or rises very little) when aerating with indoor air, then that air likely contains excess CO2, and more aeration with that same air will not solve the low pH problem (although aeration with fresher air should). Be careful implementing this test if the outside aeration test results in a large temperature change (more than 5°C or 10°F), because such changes alone impact pH measurements.

 

[BroccoliFarmer]

Very interesting. I did the cup method as indicated. Granted my PH pen was not necessarily perfectly calibrated but was reasonably close to my tank's ph probe..but after an hour, the PH maybe rose 0.02.

Going to move my air pump further away from my crawl space vent..wondering if my crawl space air is somehow going back into my air pump.

 

[Uncle99]

I did note that when I increased my Alk to 11.5dkh (Red sea Black) numbers, my Ph when from 7.9 to 8.3 and stayed their.
Since moving from 8dkh to a elevated 11.5dkh with CA 465 and MG 1410, all my corals seem way, way happier.

8’s fine, 12’s fine, it does not seem to matter, what mattered was how stable I could get it. My flux in Alk is maybe 5ppm variance throughout the day.

It’s fine to run a higher alk, just keep it pinned.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Very interesting. I did the cup method as indicated. Granted my PH pen was not necessarily perfectly calibrated but was reasonably close to my tank's ph probe..but after an hour, the PH maybe rose 0.02.

Going to move my air pump further away from my crawl space vent..wondering if my crawl space air is somehow going back into my air pump.

That was aerating with inside air or outside air?

 

[BroccoliFarmer]

That was aerating with inside air or outside air?

outside air...apologies.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

outside air...apologies.

Then the lack of rise suggests the pH is reading inaccurately low.

 

[BroccoliFarmer]

I still cannot figure this out. I have calibrated my ph probe. During the day I can get up to 8.14 IF I don’t go in my office AND I have the window open. If I go into my office, my high gets at most to 8.0. At night, I am always down in the 7.7s or lowers. Right now I am at 7.61

i have an outside air pump pushing air into my overflow with an air stone. I had the same pump pushing air into my protein skimmer. Yesterday I put the protein skimmer air line into a section of my sump and put on a recirculating CO2 scrubber..again, sitting at 7.61.I also have a bowling ball size chaeto ball on reverse dt photo period.

i just can’t seem to do anything to counterbalance me working in my office. Besides an air exchanger (which my hvac people said they can’t do), any thoughts? I am down to two ideas: give up on corals and go Fowlr or slowly bump up my alkalinity into the 10s..although I am not sure that would counter act the co2 I am exhaling in the long run other than having low ph and high alkalinity.

thoughts or advice?

 

[Jonty]

Co2 scrub/recirculate Skimmer air.
Affordably Increase Reef Tank pH for Coral Growth! BRS Universal CO2 Scrubber

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

i just can’t seem to do anything to counterbalance me working in my office. Besides an air exchanger (which my hvac people said they can’t do), any thoughts? I am down to two ideas: give up on corals and go Fowlr or slowly bump up my alkalinity into the 10s..although I am not sure that would counter act the co2 I am exhaling in the long run other than having low ph and high alkalinity.

thoughts or advice?

You are working too hard. lol

FWIW, tank top aeration is where the CO2 is getting in if the skimmer is getting all outside air.

 

[BroccoliFarmer]

You are working too hard. lol

FWIW, tank top aeration is where the CO2 is getting in if the skimmer is getting all outside air.

hmmmm..I knew this but your response made me think that i might actually have an answer...plus a glass lid on it. The outside air in my over flow should then displace the inside air. Experiment started. THANK YOU

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You're welcome.

Let us know the result!

 

[BroccoliFarmer]

You're welcome.

Let us know the result!

The result was undetectable. BOO

Look at this though. I am really nervous. (Alk is probably closer to 9 as my apex tests consistently 0.6 dkh higher than my other tests.)

I am about to give up on hard corals.

 

[Eagle78]

I had the same problem, my tank is in my restaurant, so PH drop about 0.2 - 0.3 point went is full house. I install a 6 inch outside air above my tank and sump. Dose kalk and add CO2 scrubber. Now I get PH around 8.15 - 8.45. The CO2 scrubber is the most effective. Try CO2 scrubber it will help!

 

[reefluvrr]

How old is your pH probe? Maybe it is time yo replace?

 

[InvaderJim]

I would almost guess that your probe is bad or going bad at this point. What are you using to test it?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The result was undetectable. BOO

Look at this though. I am really nervous. (Alk is probably closer to 9 as my apex tests consistently 0.6 dkh higher than my other tests.)

I am about to give up on hard corals.

I agree that is the aeration test with outside air did not show a significant rise when the pH is 7.8 or less, there is a testing issue.

 

[billwill]

I'm here to tell you people grow amazing corals (SPS too) with this same exact scenario you've got. PH is the last thing I test for in my aquarium because it's the one you have nearly no control over. And like I said, plenty of people grow amazing corals below a ph of 8.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'm here to tell you people grow amazing corals (SPS too) with this same exact scenario you've got. PH is the last thing I test for in my aquarium because it's the one you have nearly no control over. And like I said, plenty of people grow amazing corals below a ph of 8.

They do, And people often get faster growth at higher pH. If you want faster growth than you get at pH below 8, pH is a good way to try.

IMO, the nearly no control over pH statement is not true. It is just not as simple as "add this and your problem is solved". There are lots of ways to impact pH, both to raise it and lower it.