TBS Based Rock Flower Anemone 2 Gallon Pico Tank Questions??

[Fish Fan]

Hi guys! I haven't had any kind of saltwater tank in many years, but I am interested in getting back into the hobby. I have been carefully planning and acquiring equipment for a 40-80 gallon reef tank build, and for that tank, I want to take the slow and (reasonably) sanitary approach, doing my best to carefully cultivate the dry, base rock, adding select beneficial microorganisms, and quarantining all inhabitants as best as I can (fingers crossed, right??). At my age, I feel like I have a great deal of patients, and want to embrace this "low and slow" paradigm.

That said, I have for years been really interested in the aquacultured rock offered by Tampa Bay Saltwater. I have always wanted to try their rock, but have been put off by the high cost of air-shipping, the fact that I have to pick it up at the airport, which for me is an hour away, and the thought that many of the live organisms I may receive might not make it long term in an aquarium, and may well lead to die off. Not to mention the thought of bringing every ocean pest imaginable into my tank.... Green hair algae, Great White shark..... Gasp!

I don't know if I just missed it all these years, or if it's a new thing for TBS, but I just recently noticed their "Treasure Chests", which are small packages of their rock and other critters, shipped by USPS to your door. Again, I may be slow to the show, but I'm excited!

Add to the excitement the recent Amazon Prime Day deals that typically don't apply to items I want, but this last week I made some purchases at a great Prime Day discount:

I got:

• A 2 gallon, low-iron, rimless tank (about 8"x8"x8") that also comes with a 0.8 gallon tank that I thought might be good for an ATO reservoir, possibly.
• A Sicce 12w picco heater that's set to 78 degrees F.
• An AC30 - I am a huge fan of AquaClear filters, and if this works out I will get an InTank media basket and Etsy-made surface skimmer.
• A Most Aqua ATO that was $35, and *looks* just like many of the other more expensive ATO's available. I do have a Tunze 3155 if this cheap ATO fails.
• And, I'm going to try a very inexpensive Nicrew 12w reef light that I got for twelve bucks; can't beat that price, and if needed I will grab a Kessil A80 Blue.

I thought I'd try Tampa Bay Saltwater's Pico "Treasure Chest" package that comes with a few pounds of base rock, premium rock, sand, and a couple critters for this pico tank.

My thought was to get the bare tank and filter going with some bio media and a fishless cycle using Dr. Tim's One and Only as well as his Ammonium Chloride. Once the bare tank was well cycled, I thought I could then place an order for the TBS Pico "Treasure Chest".

If and when this system stabilizes, my thought was to make this an RFA dominate tank, Caribbean themed, with maybe some macro algae.

What do you guys think? Am I on the right track here for a little desktop pico with some RFA's and maybe some sexy shrimp? Could someone recommended a place to order the RFA's inexpensively? I'm not looking for super high-end varieties, just some nice animals that will be happy in a 2 gallon pico.

Any advice would be much appreciated

 

[Jedi1199]

Hi guys! I haven't had any kind of saltwater tank in many years, but I am interested in getting back into the hobby. I have been carefully planning and acquiring equipment for a 40-80 gallon reef tank build, and for that tank, I want to take the slow and (reasonably) sanitary approach, doing my best to carefully cultivate the dry, base rock, adding select beneficial microorganisms, and quarantining all inhabitants as best as I can (fingers crossed, right??). At my age, I feel like I have a great deal of patients, and want to embrace this "low and slow" paradigm.

That said, I have for years been really interested in the aquacultured rock offered by Tampa Bay Saltwater. I have always wanted to try their rock, but have been put off by the high cost of air-shipping, the fact that I have to pick it up at the airport, which for me is an hour away, and the thought that many of the live organisms I may receive might not make it long term in an aquarium, and may well lead to die off. Not to mention the thought of bringing every ocean pest imaginable into my tank.... Green hair algae, Great White shark..... Gasp!

I don't know if I just missed it all these years, or if it's a new thing for TBS, but I just recently noticed their "Treasure Chests", which are small packages of their rock and other critters, shipped by USPS to your door. Again, I may be slow to the show, but I'm excited!

Add to the excitement the recent Amazon Prime Day deals that typically don't apply to items I want, but this last week I made some purchases at a great Prime Day discount:

I got:

• A 2 gallon, low-iron, rimless tank (about 8"x8"x8") that also comes with a 0.8 gallon tank that I thought might be good for an ATO reservoir, possibly.
• A Sicce 12w picco heater that's set to 78 degrees F.
• An AC30 - I am a huge fan of AquaClear filters, and if this works out I will get an InTank media basket and Etsy-made surface skimmer.
• A Most Aqua ATO that was $35, and *looks* just like many of the other more expensive ATO's available. I do have a Tunze 3155 if this cheap ATO fails.
• And, I'm going to try a very inexpensive Nicrew 12w reef light that I got for twelve bucks; can't beat that price, and if needed I will grab a Kessil A80 Blue.

I thought I'd try Tampa Bay Saltwater's Pico "Treasure Chest" package that comes with a few pounds of base rock, premium rock, sand, and a couple critters for this pico tank.

My thought was to get the bare tank and filter going with some bio media and a fishless cycle using Dr. Tim's One and Only as well as his Ammonium Chloride. Once the bare tank was well cycled, I thought I could then place an order for the TBS Pico "Treasure Chest".

If and when this system stabilizes, my thought was to make this an RFA dominate tank, Caribbean themed, with maybe some macro algae.

What do you guys think? Am I on the right track here for a little desktop pico with some RFA's and maybe some sexy shrimp? Could someone recommended a place to order the RFA's inexpensively? I'm not looking for super high-end varieties, just some nice animals that will be happy in a 2 gallon pico.

Any advice would be much appreciated

Skip the Dr. Tims snake oil. You are using live rock from the ocean. It will skip cycle that tank no problem.

@Living Reef Orlando is having a live sale this weekend and they are the only source I buy RFA's from. Good prices and VERY high quality.

 

[Fish Fan]

Skip the Dr. Tims snake oil. You are using live rock from the ocean. It will skip cycle that tank no problem.

@Living Reef Orlando is having a live sale this weekend and they are the only source I buy RFA's from. Good prices and VERY high quality.

Thank you for your reply! The reason I want to cycle the tank before getting the rock is because with the rock package I'm planning to get I'm not only getting base rock, but I would also get a small about of their premium rock, which is supposed to have quite a lot of life on it. I get that this cultured rock comes teaming with beneficial (and nuisance) microorganisms, I just thought if I have the filter cycled first I would have a little buffer in case things start to die off when I first add all the rock and critters in the tank. To me, this makes sense. I know some people say the Dr. Tim's stuff isn't worth it, but I happen to have a fresh bottle on hand, and I thought the fishless cycle method would be a good way to go with this little tank.

Thank you for suggesting Living Reef Orlando, I will check them out for sure!

 

[Ryebreadiest]

I think any kind of cycle with bio media only is going to be somewhat pointless. Cycling a handful of sterile bio media with Dr Tim’s for a few weeks isn’t going to come close to the biological filtration power of shipped wet ocean live rock and sand.

You can quite literally dump in your wet TBS sand, set in their rock, fill it with water and turn the equipment on. Whatever media you have in your filter will seed eventually but likely be irrelevant. Neither of my nanos (14g and 7g) have any media but some filter floss for catching gunk and some carbon.

You can test the tank over the next few days and simply change out the whole water volume easily if you find any ammonia (I didn’t with both of my tanks which used shipped in water live rock like TBS). Rock flowers can go in once you are comfortable - a few days is probably fine.

The easiest way to deal with die off in a tank that tiny is probably just vigilant testing, tooth brush to scrub off anything that dies and water changes.

 

[mryan04290]

Skip the Dr. Tims snake oil. You are using live rock from the ocean. It will skip cycle that tank no problem.

@Living Reef Orlando is having a live sale this weekend and they are the only source I buy RFA's from. Good prices and VERY high quality.

1000% vouch for @Living Reef Orlando RFA’s day 2 of the sale will definitely have some for really solid pricing I have 4 in my tanks from them and they are amazing!

 

[Fish Fan]

I think any kind of cycle with bio media only is going to be somewhat pointless. Cycling a handful of sterile bio media with Dr Tim’s for a few weeks isn’t going to come close to the biological filtration power of shipped wet ocean live rock and sand.

You can quite literally dump in your wet TBS sand, set in their rock, fill it with water and turn the equipment on. Whatever media you have in your filter will seed eventually but likely be irrelevant. Neither of my nanos (14g and 7g) have any media but some filter floss for catching gunk and some carbon.

You can test the tank over the next few days and simply change out the whole water volume easily if you find any ammonia (I didn’t with both of my tanks which used shipped in water live rock like TBS). Rock flowers can go in once you are comfortable - a few days is probably fine.

The easiest way to deal with die off in a tank that tiny is probably just vigilant testing, tooth brush to scrub off anything that dies and water changes.

Thank you, that was very helpful! The methodology you’ve described is basically what I was thinking. In the end, I know it’s the sand and rock doing the filtration and that I really don’t need bio media in the filter, except maybe a chuck or two or rubble for seeding other tanks. But I get what you are saying, and maybe I will just skip the precycle deal. Yeah, I’ll be watching it like a hawk initially, largely because I’m so nervous about the small volume, but if anything goes out of whack I can do a near 100% water change.

And just to ask, do you think if I use TBS’s live rock and sand I won’t need to add any of the bottle bacteria solutions, like microbacter7, etc.? I mean, I should get all that and more with the rock and sand. And I also don’t think I need to dose pods at all since the rock will likely be teeming with them, right?

Also, I’m now contemplating a tank change. I wanted this to be something of a budget build, and I was excited when I saw the 2 gallon tank on sale for $35. But, I also spent $35 on an AC70 for a total of $70. I think I may return the tank and filter and get the JBJ 2.6 gallon AIO for $70. Same foot print, slightly taller so a little more volume, and a clean, AIO system. Likely, I can upgrade the return pump if I need more flow too. And possibly even get some kind of random flow return nozzle.

Thanks very much for your help!

 

[Fish Fan]

1000% vouch for @Living Reef Orlando RFA’s day 2 of the sale will definitely have some for really solid pricing I have 4 in my tanks from them and they are amazing!

Awesome, thank you for the second vote for Living Reef Orlando. Currently I have no saltwater tanks running, so I’m not ready to purchase livestock just yet, but I will look into them when I’m ready.

 

[Fish Fan]

I had originally ordered a basic rimless tank that's 2 gallons and measures 8.27"x8.27"x8.27", and an AC30 to drive it. They will be delivered tomorrow. I just ordered a Lifeguard 2.65 gallon AIO that measures 7.87"x7.87"x9.84", so it's a little taller and a little more volume. However, it's even a slightly smaller footprint, and I'll be giving up a significant portion of it to the false back panel. I like the idea of having the AIO system very much, and I think it will be more flexible than the AC30 in terms of flow. But I'm worried that I'm giving up too much floor space in an already small tank. If I go with the Lifeguard AIO tank, do you guys still think I can keep some RFA's in there? Let me know what tank you guys would go with between these two for this project.

And I want to add that I do have other tank options and more real estate if the RFA's outgrow the 2 gallon. I have nothing saltwater running right now, but I have an Imagitarium 6.5 AIO that I modified to make the filter more efficient. And, I have two IM Nuvo 10's available as well. So the 'nemes would have some room to expand if they needed to. I'm just really interested in starting with a very small pico system right now. Gotta ease the wife back into this saltwater thing again ;-)

Thanks again for your help!

 

[Ryebreadiest]

It’s hard to give up footprint on a very tiny tank for the AIO, but they do look a lot neater usually. Personally I find anything below 5g to not be worth the effort. Everything that will run your 2g could run the 6.5g AIO and you would have both a lot more room and a little more buffer for volume. Full water change would still be easy. No real downsides.

 

[Fish Fan]

It’s hard to give up footprint on a very tiny tank for the AIO, but they do look a lot neater usually. Personally I find anything below 5g to not be worth the effort. Everything that will run your 2g could run the 6.5g AIO and you would have both a lot more room and a little more buffer for volume. Full water change would still be easy. No real downsides.

Yeah, I hear what you're saying, but just because of where I want to place the tank the 2 gallon size is ideal. I can definitely see upgrading in the future though.

 

[Fish Fan]

Hey guys! Just following up in regard to the TBS live rock and sand. I reached out to them directly, and they definitely do not recommend cycling a new tank with their premium rock, which I hope to purchase. They said to cycle a tank with their base rock, and if purchasing their premium rock they do recommend pre-cycling the tank, which is likely what I'll do. Hope this helps!

 

[JoJosReef]

The treasure chests look like they ship submerged in water. I'd imagine all you need to do is put it in new saltwater, blast the rocks occasionally with a turkey baster and do daily water changes for a week and you'd be golden. Die-off should be nearly zilch. Being on the extra safe side is great too, just extra work

 

[robotrash]

Hey guys! Just following up in regard to the TBS live rock and sand. I reached out to them directly, and they definitely do not recommend cycling a new tank with their premium rock, which I hope to purchase. They said to cycle a tank with their base rock, and if purchasing their premium rock they do recommend pre-cycling the tank, which is likely what I'll do. Hope this helps!

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but that seems odd. For a tank that size getting their premium LR and LS you'd be skip cycling anyway so I'm not sure what they're saying is accurate.

 

[Fish Fan]

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but that seems odd. For a tank that size getting their premium LR and LS you'd be skip cycling anyway so I'm not sure what they're saying is accurate.

I get what you are saying, but it's right on their website that they don't suggest you start a tank with their premium live rock, they definitely suggest using only base rock.

TBS is well known for offering their "The Package", which contains the rock, sand and even CUC's that they say are a tried and true way to start a new aquarium. The Package is always shipped in two shipments (adding dramatically to the cost) with the hardier stuff coming first so you can get the tank going, and the more premium and delicate stuff some weeks later. I think what they really want you to do with the Treasure Chests is order the base rock, get the tank started, and place another order for the premium rock, which mimics their The Package. It does beg the question, do they just want you to have to place two orders with them?

I mean, I trust you guys if you've done this kind of thing before, I just wanted to report what TBS said.

 

[Ryebreadiest]

I think the issue is that premium live rock can have sponges, corals, etc on it that would struggle if they was ammonia from a die off. Not everyone is going to monitor their parameters in a new tank and do water changes as needed.

You will be fine to use premium live rock as long as you are willing to keep an eye on ammonia and change water as needed. I wouldn’t worry. I mean you are talking a 2 gallon tank, you can change the whole water volume in 30 seconds.

 

[Fish Fan]

I think the issue is that premium live rock can have sponges, corals, etc on it that would struggle if they was ammonia from a die off. Not everyone is going to monitor their parameters in a new tank and do water changes as needed.

You will be fine to use premium live rock as long as you are willing to keep an eye on ammonia and change water as needed. I wouldn’t worry.

Thank you! Yes, I can definitely monitor the tank and do water changes as necessary for the first few days to weeks or however long it takes.

 

[JoJosReef]

I think they're being cautious with their recommendations. I started a 10g with 100% premium rock, no precycling or anything. Added an ammonia badge. Started adding corals on day 1. Was an extremely successful tank. Was ready with water for changes if needed.

 

[Ryebreadiest]

My 7g tank used KPaquatics LR and it was delayed for 24 hours. I placed it in a bucket with a heater and power head to let any die off occur for a few days and I still never saw any measurable ammonia. A few sponges died and I just brushed them off with a toothbrush and changed the water each day.

 

[JoJosReef]

Note, may people attribute sponge die-off to ammonia or curing but ignore that exposure to air kills sponges quite quickly, so when you've got that beautiful colorful rock in your hands wondering how you're going to aquascape it, those sponges are likely suffocating.

I had a coworker literally waterfalling water constantly on the rocks while I handled them until they were completely submerged in the new tank.

 

[Fish Fan]

Note, may people attribute sponge die-off to ammonia or curing but ignore that exposure to air kills sponges quite quickly, so when you've got that beautiful colorful rock in your hands wondering how you're going to aquascape it, those sponges are likely suffocating.

I had a coworker literally waterfalling water constantly on the rocks while I handled them until they were completely submerged in the new tank.

Yes!!! I do know that sponges cannot tolerate air, which is a big reason that I'm worried about the die off here.

I am 99.9% sure I'm placing an order for some TBS rock and sand to be used over a couple of nano tanks. What is the best way to deal with the rock and sand when it arrives? I am planning on about 14 lbs of sand, 5 pounds of base rock, and 8 pounds of their premium live rock, plus a Mantis and whatever critters come with the shipment. I plan on having a 20 gallon tank pre-cycled (my order won't arrive until mid-November), and once stabilized I will move the rock, sand, and Mantis into a couple of small nano tanks, including a species tank for the Mantis, obviously.

My thought was to keep the rock fully submerged as I unbag it. I can have a cycled 20 gallon tank with heated saltwater to place the bags in, and then open them, and let the contents out without exposing them to air. Then, I thought I could inspect and scrub away anything that is obviously dying. Once stabilized, I can divide the order up over two nano tanks I am considering.

What do you think?