TBS Premium Live Rock Questions

[Tanks4theMemories]

Hi all,

I’m starting up a UNR R90 and looking at seeding it with the TBS Sand and Rox box, which is 6 lbs of live sand and 2 lbs of premium nano rock. That would go in the refugium section of the sump with some chaeto above it and a UNS refugium light. My only concern is hitchhikers. I had vernatids in a prior tank, and I really, really don’t want to go through that again. Is there a reliable way to make sure nothing like that comes in on the rock? I know I can inspect it visually but I worry about things I can’t see.

 

[Saltyreef]

Nope. You just have to observe and be persistant. I was in the same boat but the only way to seed a tank the right way, will introduce pests.

 

[Tanks4theMemories]

Nope. You just have to observe and be persistant. I was in the same boat but the only way to seed a tank the right way, will introduce pests.

Appreciate the reply. What did you end up with? Just trying to get an idea of what toe expect and they don’t list a whole lot on their site. It’s only two pounds so I’m hopeful I can observe it for awhile in a quarantine tank before it goes into the sump. The sand I’m less concerned about so that’ll hopefully get things started until I’m comfortable adding the rock.

 

[KrisReef]

Throw the sand and rocks in a bucket, black it out and treat with marine snow weekly for 6 weeks and you should not have a problem. According to the webz, there be vermitids in Florida, including some invaders from the Pacific.

Edit. Coral Snow, calcium carbonate, if I didn't brain flat that one too? Add bumblebee snail to the bucket for extra killing power.

 

[Subsea]

“I worry about things I can’t see.“

I started my first tank with The Package and for me the wonder of seeing something different emerging from the rock was exciting. I have had diver collected live rock sprout Gorgonions & Feather Dusters two years after being in tank.

here is there list of hitchhikers from live rock collected in Tam0a Bay Area.

 

[areefer01]

“I worry about things I can’t see.“

I started my first tank with The Package and for me the wonder of seeing something different emerging from the rock was exciting. I have had diver collected live rock sprout Gorgonions & Feather Dusters two years after being in tank.

here is there list of hitchhikers from live rock collected in Tam0a Bay Area.

TBS has similar.

https://tbsaltwater.com/pages/hitchhikers

 

[areefer01]

OP - this is not unique to TBS or any other live rock source be it TBS, or KP, or something from Fiji. Adding fish or corals is of equal risk. My point is that you will need to have some form of practice, methodology, to introduce new animals, and rock, to your display. Isolation, observation, QT, etc. Even putting your hand into the tank - you need a similar approach.

Most of the hitch hikers can be managed and mitigated. You mentioned adding it to your sump so changes are slim to non that a mantis shrimp or crab will make that journey. Unless they are super tiny and survive the return pump journey. Same can be said with snails.

You mentioned the concern for vermetid snails. Inspect the rocks, remove the tubes, at the base of the rock and snail tube, and then smash the ball, base, and scrape off. Do not confuse with feather dusters. If you do not see any during the visual inspection you may be ok. The problem now is the minute you introduce anything be it fish or coral or invert you now have to ask how did the snail get in to the system (if you did not isolate, qt, observe).

Welcome to the hobby.

 

[Saltyreef]

Appreciate the reply. What did you end up with? Just trying to get an idea of what toe expect and they don’t list a whole lot on their site. It’s only two pounds so I’m hopeful I can observe it for awhile in a quarantine tank before it goes into the sump. The sand I’m less concerned about so that’ll hopefully get things started until I’m comfortable adding the rock.

Just some sponges and aptasia so far.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I'm a strong fan of ocean rock. I have TBS premium and base and live sand in my tank, and am very happy with it.
Yes, there were plenty of hitchikers, both desirable and less so.

I view my tank as an ecosystem with lots of different creatures, not a coral garden.

 

[LiverockRocks Verified Sponsor]

Hi all,

I’m starting up a UNR R90 and looking at seeding it with the TBS Sand and Rox box, which is 6 lbs of live sand and 2 lbs of premium nano rock. That would go in the refugium section of the sump with some chaeto above it and a UNS refugium light. My only concern is hitchhikers. I had vernatids in a prior tank, and I really, really don’t want to go through that again. Is there a reliable way to make sure nothing like that comes in on the rock? I know I can inspect it visually but I worry about things I can’t see.

Howdy,

There are no vermetid snails on the farm nor in the TBS holding system.

If you are placing the Treasure Chest in your sump, then you don't need to be concerned about crabs/shrimp making their way to the display.

The Sand & Rox box has only 2lbs of nano rock, so this further decreases the odds of an unwanted hiker.
I wouldn't give worry a second thought.
-Wen

Appreciate the reply. What did you end up with? Just trying to get an idea of what toe expect and they don’t list a whole lot on their site. It’s only two pounds so I’m hopeful I can observe it for awhile in a quarantine tank before it goes into the sump. The sand I’m less concerned about so that’ll hopefully get things started until I’m comfortable adding the rock.

Here's a pretty good list of hikers - TBS Hitchhikers

Setting up an "observation tank" for a Sand & Rox Box going into a sump is not worth the effort for this application.

Throw the sand and rocks in a bucket, black it out and treat with marine snow weekly for 6 weeks and you should not have a problem. According to the webz, there be vermitids in Florida, including some invaders from the Pacific.

Edit. Coral Snow, calcium carbonate, if I didn't brain flat that one too? Add bumblebee snail to the bucket for extra killing power.

Why would you throw TBS products in a bucket with no light, calcium carbonate and bumblebees! This is terrible advice for a new hobbyist using our product. The Sand & Rox Box is 6lbs sand and only 2lbs of nano live rock nuggets. We go to extreme lengths to handle sand/rock as if it were a fish so that customers receive maximum quantities of thriving ocean life forms. Putting the product in a stagnate dark bucket with excessive amounts of cc is absurd.

There are 100% NO vermetids on the TBS farms nor in our holding system. Maybe in the Keys, idk, but not here.

“I worry about things I can’t see.“

I started my first tank with The Package and for me the wonder of seeing something different emerging from the rock was exciting. I have had diver collected live rock sprout Gorgonions & Feather Dusters two years after being in tank.

https://gulfliverock.com/hitchhiker-id
Because I am more familiar with Gulf Live Rock website, here is there list of hitchhikers from live rock collected in Tam0a Bay Area.

Here is our list of hitchhikers @Subsea -

TBS Hitchhikers

TBS has similar.

https://tbsaltwater.com/pages/hitchhikers

100%

@Tanks4theMemories after receiving the order, if you have any questions, please reach out to us via email or DM here. We are more than happy to answer questions regarding products harvested from the TBS farms and their care.

Rock on.

 

[Tanks4theMemories]

Howdy,

There are no vermetid snails on the farm nor in the TBS holding system.

If you are placing the Treasure Chest in your sump, then you don't need to be concerned about crabs/shrimp making their way to the display.

The Sand & Rox box has only 2lbs of nano rock, so this further decreases the odds of an unwanted hiker.
I wouldn't give worry a second thought.
-Wen


Here's a pretty good list of hikers - TBS Hitchhikers

Setting up an "observation tank" for a Sand & Rox Box going into a sump is not worth the effort for this application.


Why would you throw TBS products in a bucket with no light, calcium carbonate and bumblebees! This is terrible advice for a new hobbyist using our product. The Sand & Rox Box is 6lbs sand and only 2lbs of nano live rock nuggets. We go to extreme lengths to handle sand/rock as if it were a fish so that customers receive maximum quantities of thriving ocean life forms. Putting the product in a stagnate dark bucket with excessive amounts of cc is absurd.

There are 100% NO vermetids on the TBS farms nor in our holding system. Maybe in the Keys, idk, but not here.


Here is our list of hitchhikers @Subsea -

TBS Hitchhikers

100%

@Tanks4theMemories after receiving the order, if you have any questions, please reach out to us via email or DM here. We are more than happy to answer questions regarding products harvested from the TBS farms and their care.

Rock on.

Super helpful! Thank you so much. This is exactly what I needed.

 

[Justdrew]

Howdy,

There are no vermetid snails on the farm nor in the TBS holding system.

If you are placing the Treasure Chest in your sump, then you don't need to be concerned about crabs/shrimp making their way to the display.

The Sand & Rox box has only 2lbs of nano rock, so this further decreases the odds of an unwanted hiker.
I wouldn't give worry a second thought.
-Wen


Here's a pretty good list of hikers - TBS Hitchhikers

Setting up an "observation tank" for a Sand & Rox Box going into a sump is not worth the effort for this application.


Why would you throw TBS products in a bucket with no light, calcium carbonate and bumblebees! This is terrible advice for a new hobbyist using our product. The Sand & Rox Box is 6lbs sand and only 2lbs of nano live rock nuggets. We go to extreme lengths to handle sand/rock as if it were a fish so that customers receive maximum quantities of thriving ocean life forms. Putting the product in a stagnate dark bucket with excessive amounts of cc is absurd.

There are 100% NO vermetids on the TBS farms nor in our holding system. Maybe in the Keys, idk, but not here.


Here is our list of hitchhikers @Subsea -

TBS Hitchhikers

100%

@Tanks4theMemories after receiving the order, if you have any questions, please reach out to us via email or DM here. We are more than happy to answer questions regarding products harvested from the TBS farms and their care.

Rock on.

Amazing reply and amazing info. Much appreciated what you do for the hobby!

 

[mjk42]

I started my tank the same way and used 15lb base rock in my sump and added 20lbs of live sand to display mixed with other sand it it seems to be the best thing I could have done. Minimal if any ugly stage. We got a few hitchhiker crabs in the sump (one porcelain crab!) and some feather dusters and pineapple sponges that are a welcome addition for natural filtration.

The only questionable hitchhiker was a mantis shrimp I found in the display that must have been very tiny and came with the sand. I had a small heart attack with vision of him killing everything in the tank and set on a mission. After many unsuccessful attempts at capturing John Dillinger including him punching my tongs and laughing in protest we have come to a mutual agreement and he has actually been a really fun addition to watch. He doesn’t seem like he will ever get large enough to threaten my fishing and the cleanup crew snails still seem to be around… Now I target feed him with scallop pieces as big as he is and figure he will be to lazy to hunt

 

[KrisReef]

Howdy,

There are no vermetid snails on the farm nor in the TBS holding system.

This sounds good and I’m not in any position to deny that it is true. Like the OP replied, “This is what he wants to know, or hear. I don’t have any evidence that it is not true, my original comment reflects the presence of vermitids in the Caribbean. It TBS has kept them out of their systems they have done a lot of work to achieve this.

Why would you throw TBS products in a bucket with no light, calcium carbonate and bumblebees! This is terrible advice for a new hobbyist using our product. The Sand & Rox Box is 6lbs sand and only 2lbs of nano live rock nuggets. We go to extreme lengths to handle sand/rock as if it were a fish so that customers receive maximum quantities of thriving ocean life forms. Putting the product in a stagnate dark bucket with excessive amounts of cc is absurd.

Really? OP said that they don’t want vermitid snails ever again. Can you not read that I provided a recipe to ensure that your live rock doesn’t have any living vermitids after the snails and chemicals have a chance to insure that your rock really has no surviving hitchhiker snails, which were there concern, not mine.

There are 100% NO vermetids on the TBS farms nor in our holding system. Maybe in the Keys, idk, but not here.

If you are selling live rock collected from the Caribbean, then you might have a vermetid hitchhiker now and again. They are present in the Keys.

Here is our list of hitchhikers @Subsea -

TBS Hitchhikers

100%

@Tanks4theMemories after receiving the order, if you have any questions, please reach out to us via email or DM here. We are more than happy to answer questions regarding products harvested from the TBS farms and their care.

Rock on.

TBS is a great resource for the hobby! Sorry to have ruffled feathers, truly.

KR

 

[Tanks4theMemories]

I'm a strong fan of ocean rock. I have TBS premium and base and live sand in my tank, and am very happy with it.
Yes, there were plenty of hitchikers, both desirable and less so.

I view my tank as an ecosystem with lots of different creatures, not a coral garden.

Yeah I guess it boils down to philosophy. To me, having grown up in south Florida and spent most of my life in the salt, nothing about the hobby feels all that natural versus what I see back home. None of the fish I have would live together in the wild, and almost certainly not with the corals I have and want to keep. At the end of the day, my goal is to keep specimens I find interesting in a somewhat natural, curated environment that I find calming and enjoy.

 

[LiverockRocks Verified Sponsor]

This sounds good and I’m not in any position to deny that it is true. Like the OP replied, “This is what he wants to know, or hear. I don’t have any evidence that it is not true, my original comment reflects the presence of vermitids in the Caribbean. It TBS has kept them out of their systems they have done a lot of work to achieve this.

Really? OP said that they don’t want vermitid snails ever again. Can you not read that I provided a recipe to ensure that your live rock doesn’t have any living vermitids after the snails and chemicals have a chance to insure that your rock really has no surviving hitchhiker snails, which were there concern, not mine.

If you are selling live rock collected from the Caribbean, then you might have a vermetid hitchhiker now and again. They are present in the Keys.

TBS is a great resource for the hobby! Sorry to have ruffled feathers, truly.

KR

Hiya Kris,

We actually have done no work whatsoever to keep vermetids out of the holding system - because there are none on any of our 3 ocean farms.

The OP is voicing concerns about a TBS Sand & Rox Box, which is sand and rock. "Throw the sand and rocks in a bucket, black it out and treat with marine snow weekly for 6 weeks and you should not have a problem. -KR"

And I can read, that you provided your recipe to ensure that "TBS" live rock doesn't have vermetids.

The problem here is giving bad advice to a beginning hobbyist, on a forum, about our product. The thread is TBS Premium Live Rock, the topic is a Sand & Rox Box. Yeah, feathers ruffled. -Wen *dm if you want to chat more.

Yeah I guess it boils down to philosophy. To me, having grown up in south Florida and spent most of my life in the salt, nothing about the hobby feels all that natural versus what I see back home. None of the fish I have would live together in the wild, and almost certainly not with the corals I have and want to keep. At the end of the day, my goal is to keep specimens I find interesting in a somewhat natural, curated environment that I find calming and enjoy.

@Tanks4theMemories Well said.
Looking forward to harvesting for your tank.