THANK YOU APEX FOR LETTING ME QUIT THE HOBBY

[ca1ore]

I fully disagree!

Did you actually read what I wrote (it was only a few sentences)? There are thousands of EB8 in the marketplace. What is the incidence of failure? Why did the OP's unit fail - was it a technology problem, user error? Absent knowing, it's all just inarticulate ranting.

 

[themcfreak]

Sorry to hear this @akma, it's my worst nightmare and why I have a tank controller in the first place, so that I can monitor. I hope when the dust settles you can recover and enjoy your tank again.

Hardware fails, so I always try to have redundancy. That said, @DarthSimon under what circumstances would the Apex be able to alarm if a EB goes down?

There is no link back from a DOS unit to state that a pumphead has failed (despite the status LED changing). Would the Apex register that a module has dropped off? Could you provide the code if you have it please?

You could use the heartbeat, but it will only detect a failure of the connection between the Apex brain/head unit and the fusion server. It will not alarm so long as the brain is up and the connection live. So you would need to power the brain from the EB, but then you lose some redundancy and also if outside of the US (ie don't have the EB832) you lose the ability to detect a power failure when running a UPS.

Maybe I missed something. The Apex brain does get it's power from the energy bar. They are not powered from another source. So if the energy bar goes out, wouldn't the brain lose connection, and hence, the heartbeat notification?

Also, I agree that more information is needed before blaming Neptune? Why would the Energy Bar suddenly go out? Lightning strike or power surge? Get wet? Bound to be something. Energy bars (and surge protectors) don't commonly just "crap out" from any brand, really. Sure there are some, absolutely. But I don't think it is very common.

 

[Dumaurier7]

Did you actually read what I wrote (it was only a few sentences)? There are thousands of EB8 in the marketplace. What is the incidence of failure? Why did the OP's unit fail - was it a technology problem, user error? Absent knowing, it's all just inarticulate ranting.

And while u guys sit there trying to figure it out your fish and corals are dyeing! Maybe I’m ranting but whatever the reason turns out to be ask yourself why doesn’t this happen to the GHL guys?

 

[themcfreak]

And while u guys sit there trying to figure it out your fish and corals are dyeing! Maybe I’m ranting but whatever the reason turns out to be ask yourself why doesn’t this happen to the GHL guys?

Not happening to "GHL guys" that we know of? And to be clear, this is the first time I have seen it happen to an Apex user either. I'm sure research would yield failures on both sides previously, though.

 

[Dumaurier7]

Maybe I missed something. The Apex brain does get it's power from the energy bar. They are not powered from another source. So if the energy bar goes out, wouldn't the brain lose connection, and hence, the heartbeat notification?

Also, I agree that more information is needed before blaming Neptune? Why would the Energy Bar suddenly go out? Lightning strike or power surge? Get wet? Bound to be something. Energy bars (and surge protectors) don't commonly just "crap out" from any brand, really. Sure there are some, absolutely. But I don't think it is very common.

These freak incidents only happen to Neptune owners[emoji12][emoji12]

 

[Dumaurier7]

Not happening to "GHL guys" that we know of? And to be clear, this is the first time I have seen it happen to an Apex user either. I'm sure research would yield failures on both sides previously, though.

Go read your forum bro!

 

[themcfreak]

That is blind ignorance, if you think it doesn't affect other controller companies. As someone said above, everything manmade will fall apart. including GHL, Neptune, and every other company. And again, we don't know what happened. Maybe his bar was struck by lightning? l bet if your GHL was struck by lightning, you would have the same issues. either way, don't imply this is Neptune only.

 

[Dumaurier7]

Whatever dude (dudet?) , I may be ignorant but my fish, corals and GHL P4 based system are all TOP NOTCH [emoji108][emoji106][emoji16]

 

[SPotter]

This is not a reason to hop over to another brand. We don't know all of the circumstances of why this energy bar died.
Apex gear is pretty much full proof if you use it correctly.....

Leaving your tank alone is your risk. You can't blame it on a piece of hardware..... This stuff happens in our hobby, pumps go, impeller get clogged up, inverts block overflow drains..... Million of things can go wrong out of our control.

Agree 100% I switched from Apex to GHL a few years ago because I was having temp probe issues and guess what.....after spending thousands more I still had problems with GHL equipment and I am now back to an Apex. The problem with technology is that not all of it tells you when its about to crap out on you.

 

[Greybeard]

Just wanting to toss in my $0.02 on this...

I'm an industrial controls engineer, deal with very extensive, and expensive, automated controls, and have been doing so for many years.

I long resisted the push to buy an aquarium controller. Why? That's my JOB... I don't want to deal with this sort of thing as part of my hobby, too! A while back, I was looking at a heater controller (I DO NOT TRUST HEATERS!), and stumbled upon BRS's video discussing use of the Reefkeeper Lite as a heater controller. Price wise, it's not much more than a decent heater controller, some light timers, and a good power strip... why not. Bought one.

Once installed, my techie background took over, and I started seeing all sorts of things I could do with such a simple unit. Bought an extra PB4, and started setting up some simple, but helpful automation. Within 6 months, it crashed. PB4's started loosing communication to the base for no apparent reason, resetting them would make it work again, for a day or three. When offline, the PB4 was not obeying the offline condition rules I had in place... caught my heater stuck on, temp about 2 degrees high... That's what I bought it to prevent! Several attempts to contact DA were unsuccessful, email address from their site was returning email as undeliverable, there is no phone number... couldn't get approval to create an account on to their forum... enough is enough.

I bought an Apex (classic). So far, so good. I do keep reading posts like this one, where things go south, and major problems occur, but to this point, (knock on wood), I've not experienced any issues.

I must say, the state of the automation industry is way, way beyond this kind of garbage. I can buy a 'brick' plc with 8 digital inputs, 2 analog inputs, 6 relay outputs, RS232/485, and an ethernet port for around $100, adding as much I/O to it as I might want for a few more bucks. These devices are STABLE. No, they're not easy to program, ain't no wizards around here, you've got to learn ladder logic... but you can be sure, barring a power outage, that the inputs and outputs will do what you've told them to do. Problem is... there isn't anyone making a pre-built power bar that can be controlled by this sort of device. You've got to design and build your own power distribution system. That's where the DIY controller projects appear to be, as well.. ReefPI and so forth. Buying a Raspberry PI is cheap, programming them is pretty simple, but nobody wants a huge Frankenstein looking power distribution system under their aquarium.

I'd _love_ to see a reasonably inexpensive, pre-built power strip, based on a known, open protocol (RS485, ModBus, there's dozens of protocols that could work) that could be controlled by just about any DIY controller. Maybe one day. A quick search did turn up one ModBus controlled power distribution device... but it was not what I would call inexpensive.

I suppose, if my Apex ever goes weird on me, I may well do just that. Build myself a panel big enough to house 8x duplex outlets, and wire it up. Hm. May do it anyway, just as something to play with.

 

[Dumaurier7]

Switching Controllers
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?sh...ds/Switching-Controllers.316106/&share_type=t

 

[themcfreak]

Whatever dude (dudet?) , I may be ignorant but my fish, corals and GHL P4 based system are all TOP NOTCH [emoji108][emoji106][emoji16]

And I am not saying GHL is a bad brand. I am sure it is "TOP NOTCH", in your opinion. Some people don't feel that way. It goes both ways for both companies. You have had issues before (I saw a previously post by you). You seemed to think 2 years ago it was bad enough that Neptune would have "be facing endless returns and countless losses." and that doesn't seem to be happening, right? Point is, you had a bad experience with your equipment. I have had good experiences. Some GHL people do have bad experiences (there are instances in the forums that searches will yield). So I am glad for me and you not having issues. I feel terrible for those that do. I can't imagine losing all of my stuff. I hope if doesn't happen to anyone else. Hopefully, the quality of all of our products will climb higher (from all brands) to prevent stuff from failing in the future!

 

[DarthSimon]

Energy Bars can get shorted out by a surge or overload. There is a White Button on top to reset it. Was this the case in this scenario?
Is this energy bar in question still working??

 

[themcfreak]

Energy Bars can get shorted out by a surge or overload. There is a White Button on top to reset it. Was this the case in this scenario?
Is this energy bar in question still working??

Valid questions, all of the 'talk' over how terrible Apex is, and we don't even know what the issue is (did it fail, did a surge happen, etc)

 

[tastyfish]

Maybe I missed something. The Apex brain does get it's power from the energy bar. They are not powered from another source. So if the energy bar goes out, wouldn't the brain lose connection, and hence, the heartbeat notification?

Also, I agree that more information is needed before blaming Neptune? Why would the Energy Bar suddenly go out? Lightning strike or power surge? Get wet? Bound to be something. Energy bars (and surge protectors) don't commonly just "crap out" from any brand, really. Sure there are some, absolutely. But I don't think it is very common.

You can power the brain separately (check the back, it has a seperate power port option). In fact, you HAVE to power it separately if you want effective UPS protection as you need the brain to recognise it's lost it's direct power to execute an energy save mode and alert). Also if the energy bar fails, I'm not convinced you will always have a power failure on the brain.

It's irrelevant WHY the module failed, having alerts/visibility that it failed is what's key.

Unfortunately, I can't rely on the heartbeat notification, I have found it unreliable at best. For example, I disconnected the network cable today whilst I put a new network in place and I didn't receive a notification until over two hours later. It's the third time that that has occurred.

With regards to quality, I can't comment on the EB832 as they're not available outside of the US. However I'm concerned about quality when I see pics of transistors, screwed to a heatsink and they haven't even bothered to use thermal paste.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing Neptune, I rely on their tech and without which my tank could not operate due to my international travel, but the quality lags behind in a number of areas and is not in line with the price premium for some items.

 

[Dumaurier7]

The issue is not having “an” issue but having multiple recurring issues so much that you are afraid to leave your tank alone, but as the saying goes” to each their own” ill happily stay where I am whilst “they” try to figure out what happened[emoji16]

 

[themcfreak]

You can power the brain separately (check the back, it has a seperate power port option). In fact, you HAVE to power it separately if you want effective UPS protection as you need the brain to recognise it's lost it's direct power to execute an energy save mode and alert). Also if the energy bar fails, I'm not convinced you will always have a power failure on the brain.

It's irrelevant WHY the module failed, having alerts/visibility that it failed is what's key.

Unfortunately, I can't rely on the heartbeat notification, I have found it unreliable at best. For example, I disconnected the network cable today whilst I put a new network in place and I didn't receive a notification until over two hours later. It's the third time that that has occurred.

With regards to quality, I can't comment on the EB832 as they're not available outside of the US. However I'm concerned about quality when I see pics of transistors, screwed to a heatsink and they haven't even bothered to use thermal paste.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing Neptune, I rely on their tech and without which my tank could not operate due to my international travel, but the quality lags behind in a number of areas and is not in line with the price premium for some items.

The heartbeat notification 'delay' is valid to an extent. I am going to speculate here, but none of this is 'true' until clarified by the OP. But even if your heartbeat notification was 3 hours delayed, you got it. If I am on vacation, and I get a notification that my Apex is disconnected, I am going to send a friend to look into what is happening if I can't see the tank on camera (or if I see it on camera and no water is moving). However, even at a 3 hour delay, it is unlikely that everything in the tank would die. No water movement is bad, but 3 hours shouldn't nuke a tank. In which case, the OP should have received the notification, correct?

 

[DarthSimon]

Apex is far from terrible. IMHO the best controllers on the market for the money..... I have repeated this time after time. If used correctly, and you have a firm understanding of what I can do, and what it can't do, it's a valuable tool for running your aquarium.

Did the user who's EB8 supposedly died, have any sort of power head or circulation in play outside the Apex EccoSystem. When I go on vacation, I plug my Gyre Pumps into an outside power source away from Apex. In event of failure of Apex, water flow would continue and you tank would have some sort of water circulation.... Just food for thought....

 

[themcfreak]

The issue is not having “an” issue but having multiple recurring issues so much that you are afraid to leave your tank alone, but as the saying goes” to each their own” ill happily stay where I am whilst “they” try to figure out what happened[emoji16]

FYI, old example. But let us not pretend it is unique to 1 brand. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1733010

We should all have back ups to the back ups. Contingency plans. Backups to the contingency plan. That is the point, right?

 

[devin]

I do own an apex but instead of blaming equipment that can fail. Maybe it would be better to talk about redundancy in a reef tank.

For example I have a heater stashed in my overflow box with its own thermostat on a different plug in separate from the power bar that’s set at 75 degrees. (Lesson learned from a return pump going out)

Heater in sump no longer controlled by the apex. ( lessons learned when temp prob failed on me once and a second time my ato stopped working on vacation)

Light runs on a separate controller. But par meter from apex allows me to see if it’s working from away.

My 2 gyres also rub separate from my apex.