The Amazing 32 port Apex Neptune Breakout Box supporting FMM sensors except the flow sensors (for 15$)

[Bramzor]

The Amazing 62* port Apex Neptune Breakout Box supporting FMM sensors except the flow sensors (for 15$)
* As I do not need to pass OFF information and only when something is ON, I could even do 63 outputs instead of 32. 2 values: 000000 I would use for OFF and 111111 can be used as health check for the breakout box & controller)

*** This is a theoretical project at this moment, so use the information in this thread at your own risk. ***


Info:

While the original Apex Neptune Breakout Box only allows 6 simple inputs, for example float switches, the idea started on how to allow it to support IR/Inductive/Leakage sensors too which otherwise need to use 1 of the only 4 ports on a more expensive FMM module.
These sensors do however requires a power source which does not exist on the Breakout box. This however (although not supported/allowed by Apex Neptune!) is available on the Aquabus.
That solves the problem of the missing power source which could already allow us to attach the FMM sensors.

But we want to go one step further. In theory we could use Virtual Outlets to use the 6 inputs of the breakout box as a 6 bit number. This allows 64 different possibilities. While we need ON or OFF for each input, we could translate these 64bit into 32 inputs using those virtual outlets. In fact that's not true. As we use "Set Off" by default in Apex, we only need 1 value for OFF. If we use all wires on (binary value 64) as a health check, that leaves 62 usable ports.
So the idea is to use the 12V of the Aquabus to power a small controller (Arduino but could be anything really) and use that one to translate those 32 inputs into one 64bit number and send that over using the 6 breakout box inputs to the Apex Controller. That Apex can use those 6 inputs to translate it and control the virtual outlets for all 64 inputs.
A controller with 64 inputs does not really exist but an easiest way is to use 4x 16bit I2C expanders which provides us with 64 inputs.

* Optionally you add LEDS to view sensor level and have a visual aid.
* Also if you are able to attach 2 break out boxes (if you have additional PM1, PM2 or PM3 modules), you could multiple of these. The only limitation is the max number of virtual outlets as you need one for each input. But that number is 100 or even higher on new models so probably not an issue for most people.


Summary:

Using the virtual outlets in Apex Neptune and the 6 bits from the breakout box, you could have a 64 ports Apex Neptune Breakout Box that also allows the FMM Optical (And DIY Inductive) Water level sensors and Leakage sensors in one device.
Which could replace no less than 16 FMM Modules worth about 1600$ or even 2080 euro in Europe. All of this for just about 15$ (13 euro)


Parts:

1x Arduino with DC port or Wemos board in my case which has a WIFI connection onboard -> 2 euro
* Only For Wemos you need DC connector -> 1 euro
4x 16bit expander -> 2 x 1 euro
1x USB cable which provides the 12V -> 1 euro
1x MD8 cable -> 3 euro
Optional 1x Set of 80 PXH2.54 4 pin connectors -> 1 euro (to connect DIY IR/Inductive/Leakage sensors)
Optional 1x Set of 10 3.5 Audio 4Pin connector -> 3 euro (to connect official Apex FMM IR/Leakage sensors)

Cost: About 15 euro
** Some small parts might be added in the future when I start building it, but most things are already listed here.
(If people want, I can add links for all the parts too.)



Technical stuff:
- I would use 1 of the inputs to detect if the controller is working. Kind of a heartbeat. So you would still have 31 inputs which is A LOT!
- I personally would use the PXH2.54 4 pin connectors and have it prewired for IR sensors and some for the inductive sensors. If you buy them in China, you get them with a 4 pin but the wiring is not compatible between IR sensor and the Non contact inductive sensor. Easiest way is to reserve them for one of them which makes it plug and play.
- I would use the interrupts on the expanders so the controller can sleep till the input of one of the sensors changes and this will wake the CPU of the controller up.
- I would delay the change of a virtual outlet with 1 second. Just to make sure when bits are changed, it would not cause faulty data.

Risks:
- If for any reason one of the 6 inputs of the breakout box disconnects or does strange things, It will impact all 64 inputs/sensors. But using a heartbeat that checks if all 6 inputs are high, it would be possible to ignore and alarm if something like this happens. But its a small risk though.


Open questions:

So to the techies on the forum, will it work and what am I missing? Any Tips?
And what would be the best way to connect the controllers 6 ports output to the Apex controller. Maybe Optocouplers?


FAQ:

Q) Whats the maximum number of ports/breakout boxes?
A) Depends on the number of virtual outlets available. By default this number is 99. But Apex support can increase the number of virtual outlets if required.

 

[Bramzor]

Nobody interested?

I also figured out how to add possibly 15 relay outputs (worth 2 EB8s) and some speciality sensors (multiple DIY Digital Temp sensors, ...) on the same breakout box.
So it would add a lot more functionality to your Apex at almost no additional cost.

Imaging you are a breeder and want to attach 10-20 tanks with their own sensors and pumps on just one Apex without spending $1000s of modules. This is it.

 

[frank10]

Looks interesting

 

[picklz]

Interesting indeed, following along.

 

[Bramzor]

Interesting indeed, following along.

Theory has evolved a little while waiting for all the parts to start building it.
The idea was that it might even be possible to add values of other elements like temperature or any other metric using the FMM module. Probably it can be rather easy to simulate any metric like it would be a flow meter and use this as an input for the FMM module. This allows up to 4 inputs of different metrics which could be Temperature, KH or anything that can be measured automatically and connected to the FMM module to show the value and even use it within your Apex environment.

Let's say you need to measure 4 temperatures with your Apex. Normally this would require 4 expensive PM modules but using this technique, it would only require 1 FMM Module.

 

[Dierks]

Did anything ever come of this. I have 12 Tanks I would love to control with my Apex but there is no way I can justify spending the $ to do that...

 

[picklz]

Theory has evolved a little while waiting for all the parts to start building it.
The idea was that it might even be possible to add values of other elements like temperature or any other metric using the FMM module. Probably it can be rather easy to simulate any metric like it would be a flow meter and use this as an input for the FMM module. This allows up to 4 inputs of different metrics which could be Temperature, KH or anything that can be measured automatically and connected to the FMM module to show the value and even use it within your Apex environment.

Let's say you need to measure 4 temperatures with your Apex. Normally this would require 4 expensive PM modules but using this technique, it would only require 1 FMM Module.

I think it's a cool idea as well, but my personal opinion is I would be cautious of trying to add/do too much all at once though, both from a implementation or technical standpoint and from a testing and reliability standpoint. Prove out the basic ability to add the addressable leak/level sensors and then when that is rock solid add on from there. Temp and Flow would be cool items to eventually have for sure.

 

[just4plaay]

I get your thought process of using the 6 inputs to make a binary input but doesn't that limit you to a single input at a time?

The Arduino could have 20 inputs, 1-20. Each one assigned to it's corresponding binary (ie 000001, 000010, 000011, etc). When a sensor is tripped it needs all 6 inputs on the apex in order to send that sensor signal. Say input 3 on the Arduino is triggered, the apex virtual outlet is looking for 1 = 0, 2 = 0, 3 = 0, 4 = 0, 5 = 1, 6 = 1. Unless I'm missing something the only way to get around this would be send a light switch type signal that's only momentary. Something like the 3 signal is send for .2 seconds to turn it on and .2 seconds to turn it off. There is no feedback loop on that though so it is a little risky because if the Arduino and Apex get out of sync you'd have to manually sync them again.

It sounds like a cool project, just wondering if it's worth the effort vs making the jump to an arduino based controller like ReefAngel.

 

[Bramzor]

Did anything ever come of this. I have 12 Tanks I would love to control with my Apex but there is no way I can justify spending the $ to do that...

Waiting for some more parts to start but in theory it’s already figured out. Just have to put the parts together and do some programming on the controller. But yes, the goal is to have a lot of inputs on just one controller. In theory you could put lots of tanks on one controller using these techniques.

 

[bozo]

Any updates?