The Phosphate war

[Redbird5]

I've been at war with phosphates for a good six months. The reason for the war is my rocks are leaching out phosphates. Currently I'm using gfo, I've used phosphate pads, phosphate rx. I'm on my wits end. I've ordered a refugium, well the parts to make it.
Yesterday using my Hanna Phosphate test it was 0 and my nitrates are 26.9.

My goal isn't to chase perfect numbers. It's to keep things stable and very boring.

I've removed the gfo and the phosphates rise and I add more and they drop.

Will the refugium help with this? I know that it's a long game, at least 6 months.

 

[ReefED!]

Ryan at SR has done a lot of testing on refugiums and says that they're incredible at lowering phosphates.

The caveat is you have to stay on top of it - your macroalgae has to grow, but you have to stay on top of pruning so that it continues to grow and thrive and soak up nutrients (and you are exporting them out of your tank)

I personally have a thriving fuge but I haven't noticed it cratering my phosphate - I seem to have a similar issue where it gets bound up on surfaces and rock and then leeches back out when the GFO comes out.

 

[Redbird5]

Ryan at SR has done a lot of testing on refugiums and says that they're incredible at lowering phosphates.

The caveat is you have to stay on top of it - your macroalgae has to grow, but you have to stay on top of pruning so that it continues to grow and thrive and soak up nutrients (and you are exporting them out of your tank)

I personally have a thriving fuge but I haven't noticed it cratering my phosphate - I seem to have a similar issue where it gets bound up on surfaces and rock and then leeches back out when the GFO comes out.

I'm starting a refugium next week. I'm hoping it works gives me boring numbers.

 

[LeftyReefer]

Yesterday using my Hanna Phosphate test it was 0 and my nitrates are 26.9.

My goal isn't to chase perfect numbers. It's to keep things stable and very boring.

I've removed the gfo and the phosphates rise and I add more and they drop.

Maybe just use less GFO at a time?
If you are using enough GFO that it bottoms out your phosphates, then it sounds like you just might be using too much. Try using a bit less and maybe it won't bottom out your phosphates.

I run GFO too, but I run an amount that keeps my phosphates low (under .10) but not enough to bottom them out.

 

[Redbird5]

Maybe just use less GFO at a time?
If you are using enough GFO that it bottoms out your phosphates, then it sounds like you just might be using too much. Try using a bit less and maybe it won't bottom out your phosphates.

I run GFO too, but I run an amount that keeps my phosphates low (under .10) but not enough to bottom them out.

I've tried lower amounts and the phosphates skyrocket. It's not hurting my coral yet.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I think it is time for a truce and let them rise and see where they stabilize. :)

 

[benkirsch07]

I think it is time for a truce and let them rise and see where they stabilize. :)

Randy, quick question on this (don't want to take over the thread), how long do you think it takes, generally speaking, for something like your phosphate to stabilize? In this case, if we removed the GFO, stopped trying to fight things, fed a standard amount, and did our weekly water changes, what is the timetable we are looking at?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Randy, quick question on this (don't want to take over the thread), how long do you think it takes, generally speaking, for something like your phosphate to stabilize? In this case, if we removed the GFO, stopped trying to fight things, fed a standard amount, and did our weekly water changes, what is the timetable we are looking at?

Most happens in a day or two, then little bits longer and longer as sand and rock not in immediate contact with the bulk water (such as down in sand) comes more and more into equilibrium.

 

[Redbird5]

I think it is time for a truce and let them rise and see where they stabilize. :)

It can't hurt I have a refugium coming soon. What would the point of finding out where they go be though? What objective am I looking for?

 

[exnisstech]

How high is your PO4 getting? Maybe do as Randy suggested and let it level out and see where it lands without intervention. I have a tank that gets as high as 0.9+ and has never been lower than 0.4 but the tank looks good so I don't worry about it. Do you have a target number and if so why did you choose that number? Often trying to achieve stability by constantly changing something is counter product. I've found stable high levels are better than a roller coaster ride of up and down but that just been my experience.

PS. A chaeto fuge never did anything to lower my PO4 or NO3 even harvesting half of a 5g bucket of chaeto 7-10 days. Ive been running an ATS now for 3 years that produces a lot and the tank runs NO3 50+ and PO4 0.4 - 0.9 so I give up. I'd pull the ATS but the tangs love the algae it produces so I don't have to buy nori. I'm pretty sure my heavy handed feeding along with 9 tangs, some large is the reason for my high levels.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

It can't hurt I have a refugium coming soon. What would the point of finding out where they go be though? What objective am I looking for?

To see if they remain at an acceptable level without further bloodshed. lol

Some great tanks have 1+ ppm phosphate. I show one in the article below

https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/randy’s-thoughts-on-nutrient-target-ranges.1087/
from it:

Figure 1. A very high nutrient system maintained by Richard Ross, with nitrate sometimes above 100 ppm and phosphate above 1 ppm.

Also from it:


4. What targets seem reasonable? Of course, that depends on all the other factors at play, such as types of corals, availability of ammonia, particulate foods, etc. However, for a mature mixed reef, this would be how I personally would run it:

• Let nitrate float between 5 ppm and 50 ppm. I’d use gentle export in this range, such as growing macroalgae.
• Above 50 ppm, I’d begin to focus more on reducing it, by organic carbon dosing, turf or macroalgae, etc.
• Below 5 ppm, I’d begin to dose ammonia or feed more. The target level might drop lower if dosing ammonia, just like the heavy in/heavy out scenario where nitrate may not be as needed.
• Let phosphate float between about 0.06 ppm and 0.3 ppm. This range is higher than I’ve recommended in the past. I’d use gentle export in this range, such as growing macroalgae.
• Above about 0.3 ppm, I’d begin to focus more on reducing it, by turf or macroalgae, or a binder such as GFO or lanthanum (has its own risks to tangs). If a binder: GO SLOW. Turf and macroalgae will typically be slow enough.
• Below 0.06 ppm, I’d begin to dose sodium phosphate or feed more to get the level up.