DesertReefBoy
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Any update on the turf algae?
The red turf algae battle
- Thread starter xCry0x
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Nothing noteworthy! Unfortunately =(
I have had 2 urchins in the tank for a while and I'd say the algae by in large is more sparse than it was.
I actually just got a ICP test back which showed 0.01mg/l phosphate and 0.7 mg/l nitrate -- so as originally stated, it isn't an excess nutrient issue! =)
I have had 2 urchins in the tank for a while and I'd say the algae by in large is more sparse than it was.
I actually just got a ICP test back which showed 0.01mg/l phosphate and 0.7 mg/l nitrate -- so as originally stated, it isn't an excess nutrient issue! =)
I was overrun with red turf algae in my 210g a few years back. The only thing that touched it was a red tuxedo urchin. Just one and the whole tank was clear of it in months. Crazy! I never tried chemical methods though. This was years ago, and do not remember time scales, but do remember the urchin well and the result. I was shocked.
Oh, I tried blue ones too. The red did the trick. Not sure why, but it did. Crazy! Maybe they are like the mithrax and the red eat more red algae and the green the green. 
Good luck!
Good luck!Interesting, don't think I have ever seen red ones! I bought the last two my LFS had at the time =)
Its an all around interesting pest -- at this point I been successful at eradicating everything else I have run into except this algae! (and that is a decently sized list of mistakes!) hah.
Its an all around interesting pest -- at this point I been successful at eradicating everything else I have run into except this algae! (and that is a decently sized list of mistakes!) hah.
this tank needed dental surgery at the encroachment phase, when it was on first rock but how easy is hindsight agreed
even still, you'd be surprised what it may still do. this is the biology of your invasion based on about ten thousand searchable invaded tanks restored:
nutrients never caused your issue, and only the luckiest of stasis changes would ever set that back. no reefer could command that to die by nutrient changes without killing/bleaching coral in the process across 3 tanks in a row, whatever might have worked on one after ten trials wont xfer to the rest. this is not a nutrient issue, x that out from the forumula imo.
this was simple nonquarantine + allowed growth but I don't mean that bad. you weren't wanting it there, but the animals added chose not to act and they were a decent move to try agreed. there was still an intercept point which was low work in the beginning, and high work now, but thankfully *measurable* before you take on work, unlike any other approach.
most of us will import various invaders over time, I don't qt at all, but pico reefers use a different approach when the encroachment phase begins, literally the 1st spot seen the size of a thimble the 1st day its seen:
the rock is lifted out and a steak knife is used to score out the anchors, and the invader, regardless of id, in a rasping motion like we'd hoped urchins w do, and do well in some tanks. Peroxide is then applied to the cleaned spots not the invaded ones, because our surgical digging action already made the invader gone
*nature uses raspers on your invader, which is why it works in some tanks*
the steak knife is man rasping, deliberate, on target, awaiting no other actions other than to will a clean rock immediately.
a steel knife tip and surface abrasion... like a dentist rasps plaques and leaves a little insult bleeding on the gums, is how you measure and take back ground anything indirect simply allows more growth.
pre modeling
before doing your whole tank, only for it to possibly grow back, mini model something
take an easy to work portion, run the test, watch it in 5 days compared to the control areas and see which looks better. pls take pics if you do this, ill link it to massive tank cure threads and your job is big if you want to force it clean right now.
If that was my system, I wouldn't even consider using anything less than 35% peroxide the 3% wouldn't be worth my time. 35% takes special prep, its mighty dangerous.
Id prefer your invasion to the worst of dino invasions btw, at least yours does respond to rasping since its an anchored invader. anchors only run so deep, if it grows back, you didn't rasp deep enough. that means it would have taken a parrotfish, something that bites chunks off the reef, to cure it in nature if this occurs.
my method isn't crazy or weird it only sounds that way. fact: no other method can beat that one above for this specific invasion, history, per pics and this thread.
b
I would love to take on this invasion btw if you ever want to. after we mini model a few rocks and they behave, then we upscale.
rasping is how you work around the sps border areas and avoid the non targets.
you must take out the rocks and do this externally to do it right; we're not trying to re fragment inside the very DT we want to fix.
Im not denying there isn't 13 other ways to fix that. Im stating they're not as thorough, fast, past due, or measurable before action They're all less work though, and that's why only the 1% does rasping. They do it on all subsequent tanks lost after invasion #1, we were driven this way we were never taught this way in the reef books that gave all instruction. Those books got us invaded~ due to lack of presented options.
this crazy way above is literally the only way guaranteed to preserve your coral, all other methods subject your corals to the very changes in stasis you hope to eliminate a very rooted, nutrient and light-independent invader. you needed a grazer for this job, there's nine+ in kitchen drawer as we speak.
your invader means literally nothing bad about your tank, that may look bad to us, but its steak dinner to a parrotfish or a hawksbill turtle, it belongs on a reef anywhere the frags ride into.
even still, you'd be surprised what it may still do. this is the biology of your invasion based on about ten thousand searchable invaded tanks restored:
nutrients never caused your issue, and only the luckiest of stasis changes would ever set that back. no reefer could command that to die by nutrient changes without killing/bleaching coral in the process across 3 tanks in a row, whatever might have worked on one after ten trials wont xfer to the rest. this is not a nutrient issue, x that out from the forumula imo.
this was simple nonquarantine + allowed growth but I don't mean that bad. you weren't wanting it there, but the animals added chose not to act and they were a decent move to try agreed. there was still an intercept point which was low work in the beginning, and high work now, but thankfully *measurable* before you take on work, unlike any other approach.
most of us will import various invaders over time, I don't qt at all, but pico reefers use a different approach when the encroachment phase begins, literally the 1st spot seen the size of a thimble the 1st day its seen:
the rock is lifted out and a steak knife is used to score out the anchors, and the invader, regardless of id, in a rasping motion like we'd hoped urchins w do, and do well in some tanks. Peroxide is then applied to the cleaned spots not the invaded ones, because our surgical digging action already made the invader gone
*nature uses raspers on your invader, which is why it works in some tanks*
the steak knife is man rasping, deliberate, on target, awaiting no other actions other than to will a clean rock immediately.
a steel knife tip and surface abrasion... like a dentist rasps plaques and leaves a little insult bleeding on the gums, is how you measure and take back ground anything indirect simply allows more growth.
pre modeling
before doing your whole tank, only for it to possibly grow back, mini model something
take an easy to work portion, run the test, watch it in 5 days compared to the control areas and see which looks better. pls take pics if you do this, ill link it to massive tank cure threads and your job is big if you want to force it clean right now.
If that was my system, I wouldn't even consider using anything less than 35% peroxide the 3% wouldn't be worth my time. 35% takes special prep, its mighty dangerous.
Id prefer your invasion to the worst of dino invasions btw, at least yours does respond to rasping since its an anchored invader. anchors only run so deep, if it grows back, you didn't rasp deep enough. that means it would have taken a parrotfish, something that bites chunks off the reef, to cure it in nature if this occurs.
my method isn't crazy or weird it only sounds that way. fact: no other method can beat that one above for this specific invasion, history, per pics and this thread.
b
I would love to take on this invasion btw if you ever want to. after we mini model a few rocks and they behave, then we upscale.
rasping is how you work around the sps border areas and avoid the non targets.
you must take out the rocks and do this externally to do it right; we're not trying to re fragment inside the very DT we want to fix.
Im not denying there isn't 13 other ways to fix that. Im stating they're not as thorough, fast, past due, or measurable before action
They're all less work though, and that's why only the 1% does rasping. They do it on all subsequent tanks lost after invasion #1, we were driven this way we were never taught this way in the reef books that gave all instruction. Those books got us invaded~ due to lack of presented options.this crazy way above is literally the only way guaranteed to preserve your coral, all other methods subject your corals to the very changes in stasis you hope to eliminate a very rooted, nutrient and light-independent invader. you needed a grazer for this job, there's nine+ in kitchen drawer as we speak.
your invader means literally nothing bad about your tank, that may look bad to us, but its steak dinner to a parrotfish or a hawksbill turtle, it belongs on a reef anywhere the frags ride into.
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Appreciate the perspective on it and I completely agree that the only true way to remove it would be to "nuke" the rock.
It is always interesting how many different perspectives you hear - one person says they eradicate it throughout a huge tank with doing X, another says Y, another says neither works and you need to do Z =)
It is always interesting how many different perspectives you hear - one person says they eradicate it throughout a huge tank with doing X, another says Y, another says neither works and you need to do Z =)
I have been battling Red Turf in my 120g for months now.
It covers about half of the rock work (I have a foam/rock wall on the back of the tank that is about half covered).
I've tried hermits, snails, peroxide, fluconozal, etc. with no luck.
The only thing I have found that works is Kalk paste .....
Here is what I do.
>Create a small batch of Kalk paste using Kalk powder (I use Mrs Wages pickling lime) & RO water. Not too thick, kinda like a runny toothpaste.
>I work in small patches at a time when I do water changes (every two weeks). I will work an area about the size of a dollar bill at most.
>Use a toothbrush to lightly coat the area of exposed turf algae.
>let sit for 15 minutes
>Continue with your water change (add new salt water to the tank)
>Once the tank is full and the powerheads and circulation pump are running, I will use the toothbrush to clean the kalk paste off of the area that I just covered. Letting the water flow filter it out of the system. This is why I use a thinner paste - so that it will disperse into the water quickly and reduce the chance of damaging corals ..... This WILL cause your pH to rise a bit temporarily - that's why I only work with a very small area at a time.
The algae turns a light green at first. And I have seen my hermits like to move in and work the area after the algae has been weakened.
Then a few days later ... no sign of the algae.
So far, I have treated the top 1/3 of my tank/rock over the past 2 months with good results.
I have noticed that as I move lower in the tank, I will have to do larger and larger water changes .... removing more water to get to the algae lower in the tank. I don't really know what I will do when I get to the bottom 1/3 of the tank.
Might just turn off all circulation and work with water still in the tank ... haven't tried that yet - might be an option.
So far, this seems to be working for me.
Attempt at your own risk. Go slow and be careful .......
It covers about half of the rock work (I have a foam/rock wall on the back of the tank that is about half covered).
I've tried hermits, snails, peroxide, fluconozal, etc. with no luck.
The only thing I have found that works is Kalk paste .....
Here is what I do.
>Create a small batch of Kalk paste using Kalk powder (I use Mrs Wages pickling lime) & RO water. Not too thick, kinda like a runny toothpaste.
>I work in small patches at a time when I do water changes (every two weeks). I will work an area about the size of a dollar bill at most.
>Use a toothbrush to lightly coat the area of exposed turf algae.
>let sit for 15 minutes
>Continue with your water change (add new salt water to the tank)
>Once the tank is full and the powerheads and circulation pump are running, I will use the toothbrush to clean the kalk paste off of the area that I just covered. Letting the water flow filter it out of the system. This is why I use a thinner paste - so that it will disperse into the water quickly and reduce the chance of damaging corals ..... This WILL cause your pH to rise a bit temporarily - that's why I only work with a very small area at a time.
The algae turns a light green at first. And I have seen my hermits like to move in and work the area after the algae has been weakened.
Then a few days later ... no sign of the algae.
So far, I have treated the top 1/3 of my tank/rock over the past 2 months with good results.
I have noticed that as I move lower in the tank, I will have to do larger and larger water changes .... removing more water to get to the algae lower in the tank. I don't really know what I will do when I get to the bottom 1/3 of the tank.
Might just turn off all circulation and work with water still in the tank ... haven't tried that yet - might be an option.
So far, this seems to be working for me.
Attempt at your own risk. Go slow and be careful .......
cyano on the sand= official sand rinse thread (cyano killa)
this tank might need to be part-cleaned out. the sand has its waste removed and rinsed out, only clean grains put back. any topical red algae/anchored algae and others are killed directly outside of the tank ideally
depends on how big of a job someone is willing to do. one weekend of correct skip cycle cleaning yields the results of water actions that take months and months to possibly work.
this tank might need to be part-cleaned out. the sand has its waste removed and rinsed out, only clean grains put back. any topical red algae/anchored algae and others are killed directly outside of the tank ideally
depends on how big of a job someone is willing to do. one weekend of correct skip cycle cleaning yields the results of water actions that take months and months to possibly work.
I wonder if the red turf algae possible spread spores by air? If so, the problem is fare more complex. I sussspect so, but have no facts. I "nuked" my tank with caustic soda. Did a re-start and now after a mounth I can se red spots all over the rocks. It might not be the case, but my tank live in fear...
If anyone stumbles across this - I re-started my efforts and began posting on this thread: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/s...p-cycle-reassembly.525310/page-5#post-5626310
Following @brandon429 's advice - I started pulling rocks and liberally applying hydrogen peroxide (out of tank).
As I outlined in my last post, my belief is that the issue was primarily caused by lighting.
I had a 20g nano tank that ran under LEDs for years, I never had algae problems like this.
I upgraded to my current RSM-250 (65g) tank and within 5-6 months the red turf was everywhere.
I ran it for the past ~4 years with the full 6x39w t5 lights running for about 10 hours a day -- it puts out a significant amount of PAR.
I always focused on the nutrient end of things, doing my best to strip the tank of all nutrients. It never stopped the algae.
I'm now switching my approach to pulling and peroxide nuking the rocks I can easily remove. Added a bunch more turbo snails. Cut my lighting in half - and I also am finalizing retrofitting nanobox LEDs into my hood so I can have more control over lighting.
My thought process is that I can remove a good amount of the algae through peroxide nuking the rocks.
I can increase the algae consumption by adding more snails.
I can slow the algae growth by limiting light.
So hopefully the slow down in growth + rapid removal of food (algae) will lead to the clean up crew getting "ahead" of the turf algae and starting to put a dent in it.
I'll track if this works over the next few months. I'm hopeful -- pulling out everything in my tank really isn't a great option unless I want to 100% throw in the towel and start over with the tank.
I do believe the snails eat the algae, I think it simply grew back faster than they could consume it -- so it never looked like they did anything.
Following @brandon429 's advice - I started pulling rocks and liberally applying hydrogen peroxide (out of tank).
As I outlined in my last post, my belief is that the issue was primarily caused by lighting.
I had a 20g nano tank that ran under LEDs for years, I never had algae problems like this.
I upgraded to my current RSM-250 (65g) tank and within 5-6 months the red turf was everywhere.
I ran it for the past ~4 years with the full 6x39w t5 lights running for about 10 hours a day -- it puts out a significant amount of PAR.
I always focused on the nutrient end of things, doing my best to strip the tank of all nutrients. It never stopped the algae.
I'm now switching my approach to pulling and peroxide nuking the rocks I can easily remove. Added a bunch more turbo snails. Cut my lighting in half - and I also am finalizing retrofitting nanobox LEDs into my hood so I can have more control over lighting.
My thought process is that I can remove a good amount of the algae through peroxide nuking the rocks.
I can increase the algae consumption by adding more snails.
I can slow the algae growth by limiting light.
So hopefully the slow down in growth + rapid removal of food (algae) will lead to the clean up crew getting "ahead" of the turf algae and starting to put a dent in it.
I'll track if this works over the next few months. I'm hopeful -- pulling out everything in my tank really isn't a great option unless I want to 100% throw in the towel and start over with the tank.
I do believe the snails eat the algae, I think it simply grew back faster than they could consume it -- so it never looked like they did anything.
Both tuxedo urchin and turbos eat it time to time, but don't eradicate it acc. to my experience. My sea hare ate a lot red turf, but didn't leave very clean surfaces. A nother thing is if the poo from the sea hare spreads it? They look like red turf pellets
I think the bigger issue is that the nature of the algae is that it is dense and course. So if a snail grazes over it and poops all over the place in the process - it ends up fertilizing whatever is left since the poop gets trapped in the mat of red turf.
While I appreciate the efficiency of the snail's sustainable algae husbandry -- it isn't my goal! :mad:
That is why I am hoping the lower lighting slows the growth. Then nuking algae with peroxide helps force the snails to be me thorough in their consumption due to creating a shortage of algae.
While I appreciate the efficiency of the snail's sustainable algae husbandry -- it isn't my goal! :mad:
That is why I am hoping the lower lighting slows the growth. Then nuking algae with peroxide helps force the snails to be me thorough in their consumption due to creating a shortage of algae.
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