These lights are done for good....or are they?

[stephj03]

I never did understand the power consumption argument. Seems so small of a savings.

For a 72" tank:
6x80W T5 = 480W
Three Radion XR30 G5 = 615W (run at 75% is 461W)

I'm spending more on salt for quarantine tanks than I do on electricity for lighting.

Same with unit cost comparisons:

6x80W T5 Sunpower = $672 new
Three Radion XR30 G5 = $2517 new

That would give me a $1845 budget for light bulbs. That cover changing bulbs for about 15 years.

It depends on where you live. I'm in Socal on SDGE which has the highest rates in the country. At peak times/tiers I pay over $.5/kwh.

LED marketing usually compares an underated LED config to an over rated and under ventilated MH/T5 config.

So in my area it's been a very compelling sell. Even more so bc nobody keeps the same lights on the same tank long enough to see if growth is actually comparable (2-3yrs ea)....

A lot of the big vendors don't talk about it but few have actually converted their colony grow out tanks to only LED. Most of the big names still have a lot of MH and T5 bulbs mixed in on those.

And that's even with access to wholesale pricing and steep discounts on top of that for a few that have silently partnered with LED mfg.

 

[kenchilada]

Mostly old arguments from people who cannot do math, have unrealistic expectations and/or are betting on the future. Been hearing for a decade-plus that LEDs are getting better and are going to be as good as MH, but none yet can do what a MH can do. They can get close and are different, so if that is OK, then cool, but they are not direct replacements. The Gen 3s were supposed to do this... then the Gen 4s... not hearing so much good about the Gen 5s, so they either are just OK or people are understand that they are not actually much more than a G4. There will likely always be MH around for large tanks since they are the cheapest. Also need to get LEDs to last more than 3-4 years for the masses before they are truly cost effective - sure, some have them last much longer, but they are not the norm. A $800 fixture at 10 years is more like it, not a 1 year warrant and lasting 3-4 and maybe 5 for most folks.

VHOs were supposed to disappear a decade ago. Those are still around... and as long as they are, then I don't think that you have to worry about MH anytime soon. There have been more actual advances and new tech in MH in the last 5 years than in LED with the dual-arc bulb, new bulb formula to significantly reduce heat. There has not really been much new in LED tech since multicolor replaced blue/white.. just different blends of multicolor bulbs. I don't want to argue over mobius or apps or control, but the point is that people are investing in new MH tech for a reason... people use them and they are profitable.

...so we are just were we were 5-10 years ago. ...someday LED will be as good as MH and MH will disappear. I pay attention nearly every day, so somebody let me know if I miss when this actually happens. I parallel this to when i was a kid in the late 80s, everybody was supposed to be driving hydrogen cars or hovercraft with air lands for jet packs... I am still waiting for those too.

This. And don't be surprised when the pendulum swings back the other way and MH is cool again. Right now you have videos by people selling LED professing that LED is the T5 killer according to their investigations on three tanks in a warehouse and everyone's lined up for the KoolAid. All you need is to put MH in a pretty new box, give it a cool name, make an app that barely works, and get a super hot youtube chick to proclaim how great MH is and everything changes.

If you don't believe things can 180, you weren't around to witness the "barebottom -> DSB -> barebottom" phenomenon.

 

[jda]

Sorry to side-track just a little, but does anyone know of any 48" Halide/T5 fixtures other than Hamilton? It seems like these fixtures (not pendants) have disappeared.

I have a Hamilton Cebu Sun (24") which is great except the legs are metal and the screws/nuts are rusting after 6 months. Would be perfect with plastic legs. (Does anyone know of a safe silicone-like spray or paint that I could use to coat the legs?)

I'll be using halides until there are no more halide bulbs left anywhere on Earth!

I expect to see EU pendants like Giesemann being more available in the US again if the Trump-era Tarriffs are lifted on EU goods. You can order one now from CoralVue or directly from Giesemann, but they take longer to get here and might be a on-off ship. I have been able to find a few good used one.

 

[jda]

I am lucky to be in an area where first tier is 8 cents, then 10 then 12, so electricity is cheap compared to most... even then, the bill for my heaters is much more than for the lights. For people looking to save electricity and stuff, 150w Halides cover better than a Radion at the same wattage, or slightly less... they can even help a bit with the heating bill if you put them in a hood and are no problem with heat at all if you don't. They will cover 24x24x24 enough for softies, LPS, MBP&S and strategically placed acropora with very few shadows in a good reflector.

I have said this a million times, but I trade acropora with locals and people all over the country and only one dude uses LED only and he uses them in a way that nobody else does over a wide range of acropora and has tremendous success with the tricky and easy stuff - 100% on all channels nearly all the time. A few use T5s alone and about 20 use MH to the heavy lifting. Most have larger tanks, so this is a factor as well.

 

[Dr. Jim]

I expect to see EU pendants like Giesemann being more available in the US again if the Trump-era Tarriffs are lifted on EU goods. You can order one now from CoralVue or directly from Giesemann, but they take longer to get here and might be a on-off ship. I have been able to find a few good used one.

I’ve seen the Giesemann but it has relatively small reflectors for the halides. I think the Cebu Sun’s use of the entire fixture as a reflector makes it hard to beat. Plus it has legs which I need (although they are metal).