This hurts to watch.

[Elementalj]

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/...leachingvid&utm_campaign=Content&sf33542055=1

 

[Anthony Wood]

Idk if I believe the big funded organizations out there that have very large share holders with agendas. Yes the oceans are warming but too what extent it's actually affecting the corals is a different question. I was just in the Cayman Islands two weeks ago and the water temp was 85 degrees F uniformily. So at the surface was 85F down to 102ft was 85F. I know was scuba diving and actually went that deep. I asked the instructor isn't this a tad warm for the ocean his response was no that's the normal average temp for this time of year. I didn't see a single bleached or stressed coral.

The point I'm trying to make is corals are used to these kinds of temperatures because it changes over months. The big and real question is how much they are really effected by the ocean temps not going to as low even by that tenth of a degree in the winter months when the water is suppose to be at its coldest or even a tenth of a degree higher in the summer months when the water is at its highest.

That's my two cents anyways.

 

[ReeferBob]

Idk if I believe the big funded organizations out there that have very large share holders with agendas. Yes the oceans are warming but too what extent it's actually affecting the corals is a different question. I was just in the Cayman Islands two weeks ago and the water temp was 85 degrees F uniformily. So at the surface was 85F down to 102ft was 85F. I know was scuba diving and actually went that deep. I asked the instructor isn't this a tad warm for the ocean his response was no that's the normal average temp for this time of year. I didn't see a single bleached or stressed coral.

The point I'm trying to make is corals are used to these kinds of temperatures because it changes over months. The big and real question is how much they are really effected by the ocean temps not going to as low even by that tenth of a degree in the winter months when the water is suppose to be at its coldest or even a tenth of a degree higher in the summer months when the water is at its highest.

That's my two cents anyways.

+1 Too many people with too many agendas.

 

[Drakonis]

Agree with the agendas. the marine hobby would have spoke up imo if they believed this as there are more than enough hobbiests that know darn well what those corals will and will not tolerate and if they thought this theory was right im sure they would speak up.

 

[4FordFamily]

On the topic of agendas:

Notice the narrative has changed from global warming to "climate change" so now nearly any climate occurrence can be blamed on humans to follow an agenda. Perhaps that's a mere coincidence although many of us believe we see a pattern

The data initially used predicting doomsday at the hands of global warming had 30 years or so of "normalized" (omitted) "outlier" data that showed global cooling.

A few things to think about:
1) We have been moving out of an ice age for a very long time (as a general very long term trend -- we were warming before SUV's and republicans)
2) Those pushing this so heavily are involved with the politicians trying to tax (and therefor generate revenue from) greenhouse gas emissions.
3) Climate patterns have short term (5-15 year somewhat regular patterns let's say) and also sporadic patterns. No computer system on earth is complex enough to understand or accurately predict them - far too many dependent variables. 50 years, 100 years of a pattern is minuscule in the big picture. Analyzing such a small dataset with such a wide variance in statistical outcomes with exponentially more dependent variables than any of us could ever hope to understand and then to infer anything from this is dangerous and fret with potential errors and misunderstandings. One thing repeatedly forgotten in practice but taught adamantly regarding statistics and even the scientific method is that correlation does NOT equal causality. This becomes more true with the above constraints and concerns.

Now I am not saying that humans aren't destroying the earth - we ABSOLUTELY are. Deforestation, pollution, severe littering, "overhunting", overfishing, the list goes on and on and on.

My other point is that even if we were a statistically significant contributor TO global warming (I'm not saying that we are or aren't, I see scientists change their mind on this regularly including some of the most word renown on the subject matter I'm not smart enough to conclude either way), the next logical question is this, "Is this really something we should spend resources to try to combat?" If we removed every passenger car off of the roads in the US it would impact greenhouse gases less than if we removed all cows. Is either really a good choice? (I.E. "unit of benefit" vs "total economic loss"?) no, probably not.

Wouldn't our efforts and focus be much better spent on things we can have a marginal impact on? Deforestation, reducing waste/littering, changing people's attitudes about our planet and the creatures that live on it (which could foster an entirely new era of problem solving for both the public and private sector), cleaning our oceans, finding more sustainable ways to obtain natural resources that we can replenish and reharvest?

That's my ultimate point. IMO global warming is shady, the climate change wordsmithing further casts a further shade factor on the ordeal, and the marginal impact we can fix with even the most extreme measures is probably statistically irrelevant-- or at least not the best use of our time/focus when we can have a much better net impact on our planet with a plethora of other focus' that generate less money (for individuals and institutions - not for the actual betterment of the planet) and votes than the "climate change" movement.

I do look at the world through an economist's lense, with a heavy dose of psychology. This is only my opinion, I am of course open to many others. Just be careful what data you use when making arguments. Follow the money, notice who funds them. This transcends most debates and debacles - not just this one.

 

[fab]

It is easy to show quantitative evidence of man made climate change based on inadequate data. Take any two data points and extrapolate them by drawing a hyperbole through them. ...or should that be a hyperbola?

At any rate it doesn't really matter; any ole high order curve will do.

 

[ReeferBob]

It is easy to show quantitative evidence of man made climate change based on inadequate data. Take any two data points and extrapolate them by drawing a hyperbole through them. ...or should that have been a hyperbola?

At any rate it doesn't really matter; any ole high order curve will do.

The problem is most people think they are looking at the data when in fact they are looking at someone's interpretation of the data. Lies, dang lies and statistics?

 

[Anthony Wood]

Now I am not saying that humans aren't destroying the earth - we ABSOLUTELY are.

I didn't make this clear enough in my reply. I absolutely agree there's no doubt about it! In regards to the video again your right they are twisted facts of information to meet their agenda what I was also trying to get at. There is no way the temps of the oceans are too high that this is happening because the corals can't survive these kinds of temps. Has it been scientifically proven yet what the maximum temperature thresh hold that a coral absolutely can not live in? Has that person actually taken the years to slowly raise the water temp in a test tank also while matching seasonal temp swings to a T? I can guarentee no one has. There are so many more factors in the oceans that play a role in coral health this video is leaving out that we may or may not know. Maybe what caused the coral in the video to do that was that because warmer oceans are creating a breeding ground for a micro organism to become overpopulated and cause these types of things. But the video is using global warming to meet there agenda who know just food for thought.

 

[Anthony Wood]

@4FordFamily you hit my beliefs right on the nail head! Couldn't of been put any better! Thanks for talking the time to type all that out cause I surely was not going to do so lol

 

[4FordFamily]

@4FordFamily you hit my beliefs right on the nail head! Couldn't of been put any better! Thanks for talking the time to type all that out cause I surely was not going to do so lol

No problem. It's a very touchy subject, lots of emotion behind it. Like many problems Americans face, emotion is probably not the best response to a problem.

I know people like me get lumped in with people that are anti science and anti-evolution. That couldn't be further from the truth.

My beliefs on evolution are even more complex - in short why does it have to be science OR evolution? Without much thought you can conjure how they both walk hand in hand very easily. I am not an anti evolution person. I am a man of faith and I have a close relationship with God. I also believe that science is correct with regards to evolution and many other theories. This is NOT a contradiction unless you firmly believe that everything in the bible is 100% literal, in which case I respectfully disagree but respect everyone's opinion.

 

[4FordFamily]

I also don't see the world strictly through a political lense. My "party" (if I really had one these days) can and will be on the "wrong" side of a policy or belief. It's ok to dissent. People that are a talking points memo for their party of choice are irritating at best and part of the plethora of problems we face in this country.

 

[fab]

Lies, **** lies and statistics?

Statistics, ah yes, statistics can show that, on average, a man standing with one foot in a bucket of ice water and his other foot in a bucket of boiling water is perfectly comfortable.