This is all part of the ugly phase, yes?

[i_declare_bankruptcy]

I posted a while ago about identifying brown algae growing on my rocks. No answers unfortunately and now that algae really has spread all over my rocks where there's light. I'm also starting to see GHA now and some algae and signs of life (lol) in my sump. There's also a good bit of detritus in the sump. My filter socks are plugging up pretty easily too and getting harder to clean. Also my water isn't clear (but not cloudy like a bacterial bloom) -- it's very slightly greenish yellow, enough to not get that crystal clear look when looking through either end of the tank. No cyano yet.

This is all part of a cycling tank right? Mine is 2 months old. My nitrates are 0.5 and phosphates 0.05 (both are detectable but below the first color mark). They have never been elevated beyond that. Alk is 7.5-8, pH 8.3, Salinity 1.0255, Temp 80, Ca 450, Mag 1330. Fish and corals (including my little SPS birds nest frag) are looking healthy but haven't noticed any real growth yet except for my softies.

I'm doing no water changes and trying to keep things simple. I have two reactors if necessary I can use them but they're offline with no media in them for now. I do dose Alk/Cal. I have a skimmer but it is off because I have a low bio load right now (4 fish in 140 gallons). So essentially it's just filter socks and my live rock right now.

I can't get the algae off the rocks without scrubbing them hard.

Here you can see the brown algae:
20181101_180928 by Andrew English, on Flickr

Do I break down the rocks and scrub them?
Should I try filter floss or carbon to help clear the water? (nervous about carbon haven't used it before)
Do I continue to stay hands off with the algae and let the tank do its thing? (seems to be the preferred way with new tanks)

I need some guidance here; I want to make sure I get off on the right foot with the tank -- it is the centerpiece of the living room after all

Thank you everyone, this forum (especially @PDR and @jda) have been so helpful to me so far.

 

[Pbh-reef]

How much are you feeding? What is your CuC and fish (do any eat algae?)

I would not break down the rocks, but scrubbing them with a toothbrush may be a good idea so the algae stays under control and doesn’t overwhelm the corals.

I am a little confused about how you’re running your tank. No water changes is usually paired with an algae fuge and skimmer to remove nutrients. Right now your nutrients are probably low because the algae is absorbing them. I’m not saying that what your doing can’t work but I think your system could benefit from more nutrient export. My advice would be to start the skimmer and do water changes. I would also add a quality carbon to your sump or a reactor to remove what sounds like a pigment in the water. That is something carbon is supposed to do. How
Often do you replace your filter socks? If your filter socks are getting dirty fast you may need to swap them out more often. Filter floss may be a good solution for you for right now if you don’t have the time/energy to swap and clean socks every 2-3 days. In general I think socks and floss stops being effective and needs to be cleaned or removed at least 2x a week

 

[Pbh-reef]

Just to try to make my last post simpler

- scrubbing the rocks will help keep the algae under control for now as your system matures

- replacing socks or floss will help take out food before it becomes nutrients the algae can use to grow

-ditto for a skimmer, which will also oxygenate the water and help maintain ph

-carbon will help remove the pigment in the water

-water changes will help with all of the above and help your system stabilize. I have read several people on R2R saying that NWC and the triton method are best used in more mature systems rather than new ones.

Eventually adding more CuC and algae eating fish can also help with algae control

 

[i_declare_bankruptcy]

How much are you feeding? What is your CuC and fish (do any eat algae?)

I would not break down the rocks, but scrubbing them with a toothbrush may be a good idea so the algae stays under control and doesn’t overwhelm the corals.

I am a little confused about how you’re running your tank. No water changes is usually paired with an algae fuge and skimmer to remove nutrients. Right now your nutrients are probably low because the algae is absorbing them. I’m not saying that what your doing can’t work but I think your system could benefit from more nutrient export. My advice would be to start the skimmer and do water changes. I would also add a quality carbon to your sump or a reactor to remove what sounds like a pigment in the water. That is something carbon is supposed to do. How
Often do you replace your filter socks? If your filter socks are getting dirty fast you may need to swap them out more often. Filter floss may be a good solution for you for right now if you don’t have the time/energy to swap and clean socks every 2-3 days. In general I think socks and floss stops being effective and needs to be cleaned or removed at least 2x a week

Yeah, I'm a little confused with nutrients and how they work. I've been told I need a detectable amount of nitrate and phosphate but then heard a great counter argument that you don't need it to be measurable, but present. So I've been just trying to get them above the baseline and then work on maintaining that. So I've been feeding 1 cube mysis a day and 1 sheet of nori a day for my tang and cleaner wrasse.

I clean the socks once a week (they are extra large) and I wash them with a hose outside with a high pressure nozzle. It actually works really well but yes I'm getting to the point where I need new socks hence considering the switch to floss which might be cheaper/easier to switch out?

 

[teen]

id pull the filter socks for now. whats your flow like? you need more surface tension break probably more power heads all over.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Yea , run some carbon. Def run some floss and socks.
The water shouldn’t be cloudy all the time. Run it close to or on the return pump or on a high flow area or the reactor. .

Scrub , then water change and filter floss change the next day.

Run the skimmer but try for a med wet.

Not sure what Alhae it is that’s hard to get off. Most common ones are easy.


Me I hate socks and changing them so often. You can diy a filter floss sock replacement.

 

[Pbh-reef]

I think what’s happening in your tank is basically normal for the first 2 months. I think keeping the socks on for a whole week is probably not helping because what they catch starts to break down and release simple sources of carbon phosphate and nitrogen into the tank that the algae is using to grow. That’s why I suggest changing them out more often or switching to floss that you also change out more often than once a week. I think carbon is nothing to be afraid of if you get a good quality one and that it will help you remove the pigment which will also allow more light to reach your corals.

 

[i_declare_bankruptcy]

id pull the filter socks for now. whats your flow like? you need more surface tension break probably more power heads all over.

I have almost too much flow -- two Jebao OW-25's on either end. Lots of motion on the surface of the tank.

@Pbh-reef Noted. I think I'm going to try making a holder for the filter floss instead as it does seem easier to use (I have a Red Sea 525xl ... time to google how to modify the bracket to hold floss). The return pump is plumbed with a manifold that can hold two reactors so I can run carbon in that I suppose? Just start slow?

@saltyfilmfolks I'll turn the skimmer online again, and adjust it accordingly. I don't know why this algae is so hard to get off the rocks. I'm going to try a firmer brush and see if that helps.

Here's what the water looks like:



I have two aquamaxx reactors that look like this. Is this what I should be using for carbon?



It sounds like what I can do to increase the effectiveness of my filtration and clean up my water is:

1) Switch to floss which is easier to replace and perhaps more efficient
2) Run carbon to clear up any pigment or discoloration

Will the carbon affect my N&P levels / should I have any concerns about issues from running carbon?

 

[i_declare_bankruptcy]

Also, I have an area partitioned in the sump to grow chaeto; I'm happy to start doing that I've just read a lot of opinions on starting chaeto this early and decided to hold off.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

It might just be good stuff coloring up the Rock man. Wait n see. You may need a few more snails for the gha.

The carbon reactor will prob clear that out overnight.

 

[i_declare_bankruptcy]

It might just be good stuff coloring up the Rock man. Wait n see. You may need a few more snails for the gha.

The carbon reactor will prob clear that out overnight.

Could it be? It really is isn't easy to get off. I've heard of green Coraline but not brown. The rocks are real reef (or whatever the painted ones are). If there's no harm in waiting (I can keep an eye on the corals in case it grows on them) I'd rather just do that and keep my hands out of it.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

No issues from running carbon. No effect on N P.

I don’t see much in the pic to be concerned with. But it’s hard to say from here

 

[DesertReefT4r]

How old is the tank? Was it started with dry rock? If so what kind? Curing and cycling the rock for a month before even setting up the tank is a good idea and very helpful. No lights for the first 1-2 months, no fish or corals just a light cuc. Doing this and slowly added livestock can make a huge difference with the new tank algae blooms.

 

[PDR]

I may have missed it, but what is your current CUC? I would ride it out for now, especially if it is hard to remove. No harm in running carbon at all, just make sure you rinse it thoroughly and don't grind it while rinsing (brs has some great videos on carbon). Use half the recommended amount of carbon starting out and see how the tank looks after 2-3 days. Make sure the carbon is secure and not tumbling in the reactor. You could also just throw some in a media bag (I get my media bags from petsmart for 75 cents a piece) in the sump and while it will take an extra day or 2 to clear everything up, it will be just as effective.

I find no reason to remove the filter socks at this time. Floss also works fine, but I have been cleaning my filter socks in the washing machine for years (bleach, hot water, "deep clean" and double rinse cycle, turn socks inside out and repeat). Gets them super clean and have never had any issues from the bleach.

I know you are planning on no water changes, but when a system is new it can be really beneficial to do a few just while things stabilize and mature. There are a lot of parameters and contaminants that are not accounted for in standard tests, which is why water changes tend to be helpful, especially early on.

 

[i_declare_bankruptcy]

How old is the tank? Was it started with dry rock? If so what kind? Curing and cycling the rock for a month before even setting up the tank is a good idea and very helpful. No lights for the first 1-2 months, no fish or corals just a light cuc. Doing this and slowly added livestock can make a huge difference with the new tank algae blooms.

Tank is 2 months old with reef savers rock that had been cycling for months prior to me introducing it to the tank. I used bacteria to cycle the tank and had fish and corals in a week and have had zero nitrite and ammonia since.

I may have missed it, but what is your current CUC? I would ride it out for now, especially if it is hard to remove. No harm in running carbon at all, just make sure you rinse it thoroughly and don't grind it while rinsing (brs has some great videos on carbon). Use half the recommended amount of carbon starting out and see how the tank looks after 2-3 days. Make sure the carbon is secure and not tumbling in the reactor. You could also just throw some in a media bag (I get my media bags from petsmart for 75 cents a piece) in the sump and while it will take an extra day or 2 to clear everything up, it will be just as effective.

I find no reason to remove the filter socks at this time. Floss also works fine, but I have been cleaning my filter socks in the washing machine for years (bleach, hot water, "deep clean" and double rinse cycle, turn socks inside out and repeat). Gets them super clean and have never had any issues from the bleach.

I know you are planning on no water changes, but when a system is new it can be really beneficial to do a few just while things stabilize and mature. There are a lot of parameters and contaminants that are not accounted for in standard tests, which is why water changes tend to be helpful, especially early on.

Sorry, forgot to answer your question. My CUC is pretty minimal I have 3 conchs (that by themselves keep the sand very clean) and 5 snails (forget the type but I don't see them on the rocks often) and a couple hermits (don't want to buy more of them). I really need something that will hop on the rocks and help clean them esp with GHA lurking around the corner. I'm considering a foxface as I've been meaning to add another fish. Just need to research it and make sure there won't be compatibility issues with planned fish.

The socks have been a PITA for me and not really something I want to continue to deal with. Due to the way the previous owner plumbed the manifold and reactor outlests, a d since I have space for a huge, my skimmer only fits in front of the filter socks which makes them a pain to get out. I don't plan on not ahvig anything there; I just ordered some media cups and will place floss in there instead and see if I like that more. Definitely planning on having some kind of mechanical filtration.

You make a good argument for water changes. I haven't been able to make a new batch of water due to pressure issues in my house but when my booster pump comes in I think I'll prep for one. (I have just enough RO surplus for my ATO). As you know I'm against doing water changes for the sake of doing them but you're right, it would make sense that new tanks end up with some odd water quality that you might not find in a mature tank. I'm wondering if the carbon can help with that and how effective it would be vs just a water change. I need to fill up my containers in the garage with emergency water so it would be a convenient time to do a change.

 

[Pbh-reef]

Have you watched the brs 52 weeks of reffing videos? Check out their recommendations for CuC etc.

This video from today is also helpful

 

[i_declare_bankruptcy]

So uh... I bought two 32gal brute cans and am prepping them for a mixing station. You know where this is going. I'm doing water changes.

I had a great discussion with the owner of one of my LFS. He basically convinced me to do water changes with some amount of regularity. I think I'm going to aim for bi-weekly 20% changes (basically one brute can every 2 weeks haha).

I've had so many suggestions to start water changes, especially with a new tank, that it's convincing me. I'm not an expert and I think no water changes is really something an expert should be attempting. Water changes can replenish or remove the things I can't test for and see with my beginner eyes in the tank. While IMO it still goes beyond the philosophy of stability, I'm not convinced I'm at the point where I know what to look for with no water changes.

My plan is to have an RO bin with a float switch and a pump that will feed the salt water bin. The salt bin will have its own pump, a powerhead, and a heater. The pump will allow me to pump water with a long hose all the way to my tank's sump. No buckets! I will use a python to remove the water from the tank.

My only concern is the heater. I don't want to accidentally forget about it, have it on with no water in there, etc. There must be some kind of timer outlet I can use...

Thanks everyone, big day for me. lol

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

It’s a baby tank. I don’t think you need to get carried away either.

You don’t want this to become a job.

Yes , there is such a thing as too many water changes too.

Lest just say you no3 and Po4 are low. Water changes lower them.
As you stripping the tank?
If your alk cal mag (and trace elements) usage is low , why change water to bring them up a point?

So consider the why of the WC.

The shot gun method works , but it also sometimes doesn’t.

Food for thought.

 

[i_declare_bankruptcy]

It’s a baby tank. I don’t think you need to get carried away either.

You don’t want this to become a job.

Yes , there is such a thing as too many water changes too.

Lest just say you no3 and Po4 are low. Water changes lower them.
As you stripping the tank?
If your alk cal mag (and trace elements) usage is low , why change water to bring them up a point?

So consider the why of the WC.

The shot gun method works , but it also sometimes doesn’t.

Food for thought.

I meant every two weeks with bi-weekly. I didn't realize that term goes both ways haha.

I agree it's like a shotgun method. I have dosers set up for elements, carbon in a reactor, GFO in a reactor "just in case", chaeto fuge ready to go, etc. All there but not in use yet because I don't see a reason to use them. (I'm running a tiny amount of carbon to see if it helps with the water clarity). I prefer to act when I have sufficient evidence. This is why I am trying no WC -- I didn't understand the why.

However, I've noticed some of my corals (softies and a couple LPS) aren't looking as great as they used to. The softies are temperamental and the couple LPS don't come out as much. My test results keep coming back with great results, so I'm unsure why they're unhappy when they used to be thriving. I don't know what's causing them to be unhappy but the shotgun method of changing water might help that out.

Some other users brought up that most people try no WC when their tank is established. Maybe there's something that goes on in a developing tank that WC can help with. I figured I'd try a few and see how the tank reacts and go from there. I needed to have a better salt mixing station anyways

 

[Pbh-reef]

I was gonna say something similar to above - take things slow as you change your maintence practices. A lot of what your experiencing is normal for a new tank. Water changes etc are just tools I think you should have at your disposal and try out!