Too Much Light or not enough?

[saltyfilmfolks]

People really need to know there's no excuse for judging your lights with your eyeballs. Meters are both cheap and available - use one!

Sing it from the rooftops!!

 

[mcarroll]

It's hard to have too much light for acros but you have to acclimate them to artificial lights, this takes a long time! I usually recommend starting them out very low then moving them up higher ever 2 weeks!

Allow me to try again. [emoji3]

I wasn't trying to disagree, because I agree with your process, but just trying to get you to divulge the number that you were referring to as "hard to have too much light".

The fact that you have a PAR meter somehow served as a side-track instead of an answer. [emoji6]

What level/range do you recommend starting with?

And at what level do you keep your lights?

(Measurements at the water surface are the most universal.)

Measurements in PAR and lux are both fine for me so fire away! [emoji3][emoji41][emoji106]

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Is there a specific way to tell if a Coral is bleaching from too much light or not enough. How do you know if the lights & coral are both new?

no easy answer. corals are pretty flexible to light and quality of light. and with correct acclimation most thrive. Slow acclimation I agree with as the new coral is adjusting to sooo many things besides just light.

 

[Russ265]

Lots of folks don't even have a local fish store apparently, let alone someone willing the shell out like that for a loaner.

As already mentioned a lux meter works fine for our use case and only costs about $15 delivered.

If you have, or have access to, a PAR meter, that's wonderful.

For the vast vast majority who don't, and who cannot pony up the $300, a lux meter is the ticket.

People really need to know there's no excuse for judging your lights with your eyeballs. Meters are both cheap and available - use one! [emoji3][emoji106]

Or just get a phone app...
The apps are getting too close to the meters that it is almost a no brainer

 

[mcarroll]

Or just get a phone app...
The apps are getting too close to the meters that it is almost a no brainer

For the price it is definitely worth a try. I did.

Unfortunately after my initial attempt all for your measurements were quite erratic on all of the apps that I tried so I don't recommend them anymore.

That said, if anybody finds one that does seem to be predictable, identify which phone model you're using and spread the word.

 

[mcarroll]

no easy answer. corals are pretty flexible to light and quality of light. and with correct acclimation most thrive. Slow acclimation I agree with as the new coral is adjusting to sooo many things besides just light.

Correction: a lux meter (or PAR meter) will tell you. [emoji41][emoji106]

In general:

Anything in the vicinity of 40,000 lux should be really safe. (Around 1000 PAR.)

Anything around/above 20,000 lux (around 500 PAR) would be a good minimum base.

You can expect to run into trouble in some cases when you get up around 80,000 lux (around 2000 PAR) and higher.

 

[reefwiser]

If one is using LED a submersible Par meter lets you see what the coral is getting the right amount light intensity. A coral can do better with lower Par than high Par when first placed in the tank. Once after a month in you tank you can raise it a few inches up every 3 weeks till it is at the proper place that you wish to place the SPS. No need to hurry it you will just kill the coral.

 

[mcarroll]

If one is using LED a submersible Par meter lets you see what the coral is getting the right amount light intensity. A coral can do better with lower Par than high Par when first placed in the tank. Once after a month in you tank you can raise it a few inches up every 3 weeks till it is at the proper place that you wish to place the SPS. No need to hurry it you will just kill the coral.

Honestly reading below the water surface is nice for some uses, but for our use case, if you only have/can afford a regular $15 meter, you can essentially infer the below-water measurements.

Also, I'm not aware of any corals which require exact lighting levels. Keeping your lights with in the safe ranges (around/under 40,000K) seems to be sufficient.

But some kind of meter (wet,dry,PAR,lux...any!) that can at least read at the water surface is required to know whether you're providing "safe ranges" or not. [emoji106]

 

[reefwiser]

They do make under water lux meters. The problem is LED lights can have areas of higher intensity than MH and T5. I like under the water because water filters the light an gives you a better understanding of what each coral is getting. If you want just check above the water it's just not the same I used a Lux meter years ago but once I could get an affordable Par meter I threw it away.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

They do make under water lux meters. The problem is LED lights can have areas of higher intensity than MH and T5. I like under the water because water filters the light an gives you a better understanding of what each coral is getting. If you want just check above the water it's just not the same I used a Lux meter years ago but once I could get an affordable Par meter I threw it away.

If you use the meter correctly you can identify the high and low intensity spots regardless of the source. Agreed the par meter is better for finer work. But ANY meter is better than none and its disheartening that so many nay say their use. intensity is a component of PAR.
And I cant afford a par meter. I dont know anyone that has one. should I go without?

Theres a huge hotspot in one of my MH fixtures. And the other one is almost completely smooth over a 48in area. Guess how I found out.
Just saying.

 

[reefwiser]

I bought Lux meter 25 years ago for my camera used it on my reef tank to know when bulbs where bad. Like you mention with your MH fixture.
I just have found under water Par reading way more useful with LED lighting. I just buy stuff that I use all the time. I test lights for club members all the time will be setting up a club members LED's this weekend. It's a service I provide to club members helping them with their tanks one of the many reasons club's exist and why everyone should join are start a Marine club in their area. I started LMAS in 1985 helping those that want to learn about marine aquariums together. The Par meter has been a great help to me in my learning of LED lighting and why many hobbyist go back to MH or T5. I wanted to learn how to properly use this new Lighting type and once I saw that the Par meter and under water testing of strength really helped me not kill SPS by over exposing them to too much light I was sold. If you want to use a Lux meter that's fine it's your tank use anything you like.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I bought Lux meter 25 years ago for my camera used it on my reef tank to know when bulbs where bad. Like you mention with your MH fixture.
I just have found under water Par reading way more useful with LED lighting. I just buy stuff that I use all the time. I test lights for club members all the time will be setting up a club members LED's this weekend. It's a service I provide to club members helping them with their tanks one of the many reasons club's exist and why everyone should join are start a Marine club in their area. I started LMAS in 1985 helping those that want to learn about marine aquariums together. The Par meter has been a great help to me in my learning of LED lighting and why many hobbyist go back to MH or T5. I wanted to learn how to properly use this new Lighting type and once I saw that the Par meter and under water testing of strength really helped me not kill SPS by over exposing them to too much light I was sold. If you want to use a Lux meter that's fine it's your tank use anything you like.

Its nice you do that for people. Your a rare breed.

I just dont like being sold a bill of goods on a piece of lighting gear and being told the answer is too complicated. its really not.
and its hard reading threads like this saying. How much light?
Im trying to help demystify the science behind lighting to help people.
Its not that complicated. Lux is intensity. a component of par.
and its acessable to those who don't yet fully understand PAR yet or can afford the meter.

 

[mcarroll]

[...]The problem is LED lights can have areas of higher intensity than MH and T5.[...]

MH for sure has a hot spot per bulb. Extra large reflectors and fairly extreme mounting heights and/or multiple bulbs were often required to deal with it.

Dunno if you meant to include T5 since their light is more or less even across each tube.

LEDs are interesting because while the emitters are individually like halides with hot spots, they are flexible enough that it's easy to create a pretty uniform light field by using some triangle math and reasonable lenses and mounting heights.

That's the fact that makes all the me-too shoebox-design lights like AI, Radions and taotronics (et al) so sad to me. They stack all the emitters in a 6"x12" space...emulating a MH light field. It took engineering to do that, but wouldn't that best be called backward engineering?

 

[reefwiser]

I have been in the hobby for years I help start MASNA and our club has held 4 MACNA's. I like robe forward thinking and spend a lot of time learning new technologies in the hobby. It's what I do for a living and for fun. [emoji3] I calibrate inspection lighting at work for people doing quality checks so I have had training in color cast testing. Lighting is a changing market in a very few years we will find MH and T5 not available due changing EPA regulations. As we are seeing now with basic light bulbs try finding a 120 watt light bulb. Sanjay just posted his thoughts on LED's after using them for 2 years now.
https://www.facebook.com/sanjay.joshi.792/posts/10154222777700329

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

MH for sure has a hot spot per bulb. Extra large reflectors and fairly extreme mounting heights and/or multiple bulbs were often required to deal with it.

Dunno if you meant to include T5 since their light is more or less even across each tube.

LEDs are interesting because while the emitters are individually like halides with hot spots, they are flexible enough that it's easy to create a pretty uniform light field by using some triangle math and reasonable lenses and mounting heights.

That's the fact that makes all the me-too shoebox-design lights like AI, Radions and taotronics (et al) so sad to me. They stack all the emitters in a 6"x12" space...emulating a MH light field. It took engineering to do that, but wouldn't that best be called backward engineering?

Yea I have a coralife that has just the most spectacular spread. it heats up a bit towards the center but if I rember net even an extra 1000Lux. Super super smooth unit. So i'm going to use it plus my led on my 55long. The Led kicks the 456nm range + some 650nm pretty good. the rest isnt intense enough to talk about. The MH is a 14k Phoenix I believe.
Im at 12 to 16K lux =/- 2k with the halide and the led is about 2k more,
trying to hit 20k lux at the top .

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I have been in the hobby for years I help start MASNA and our club has held 4 MACNA's. I like robe forward thinking and spend a lot of time learning new technologies in the hobby. It's what I do for a living and for fun. [emoji3] I calibrate inspection lighting at work for people doing quality checks so I have had training in color cast testing. Lighting is a changing market in a very few years we will find MH and T5 not available due changing EPA regulations. As we are seeing now with basic light bulbs try finding a 120 watt light bulb. Sanjay just posted his thoughts on LED's after using them for 2 years now.
https://www.facebook.com/sanjay.joshi.792/posts/10154222777700329

Ive been in lighting for 25 years and got my first light meter when I ws 12.. its become quite an amazing field. Leds are amazing. and Like in my field you just gotta stay up to date and wade through a few years of some junk to deal with. Its just like in my field though where you have to point out thats its still just light. all the old rules still apply. and the new ones make it easier to really tweak. the spectrum hasn't changed, just how we can now analyze it and now manipulate it.

 

[AcroFarmerRWB]

If your serious about growing corals and are dedicated to using halides or t5 then I would for see no reason not to justify spending $300 on a meter to accurately test output. I use my par meter to check my halides and t5 lights for I guess you could say hotspots and to see when I need to switch out bulbs when the par drops under a certain level.
There are a few companies that make ones now that attach to your phones and work great and are much cheaper I will be retiring my apogee here soon for one.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Sanjay just posted his thoughts on LED's after using them for 2 years now

DId you see Dana Riddles article on precise frequency manipulation to bring out certain pigment is corals? mindblowing stuff.

 

[AcroFarmerRWB]

I grow most acros that I've had for a while (meaning over 1 year some I've had for 5+) under my side that has 850-1100 par and my newer corals esp maricultured acros under 300-400 par.
My lights are about 30" off my water to disperse the light on the whole trough.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

If your serious about growing corals and are dedicated to using halides or t5 then I would for see no reason not to justify spending $300 on a meter to accurately test output. I use my par meter to check my halides and t5 lights for I guess you could say hotspots and to see when I need to switch out bulbs when the par drops under a certain level.
There are a few companies that make ones now that attach to your phones and work great and are much cheaper I will be retiring my apogee here soon for one.

Agreed. But for most of us we aint got that kinda cash and still want our corals to grow. So we have to settle for the next best thing. For measuring light. Its a lux meter. A footcandle meter will work too. But there usually more expensive.
As intensity measured in lux is as i understand, a major factor of Par. Measurement of intensity in lux should be taught and accepted. And not frowned upon as a general rule.
my tank like many others, there's nothing in there that cost $300. including the tank.