Tripping a GFCI

Brew12 · Jun 14, 2017

slayerhellfire said:
isn't that why the GFCI is used so it breaks before something happens? Or I am missing something. The way I see it if the line has other stuff on it, it makes it more vanurable to fail. I don't know I always have a separate breaker for my tanks..

Some of us run separate GFCI's so our tanks have multiple power sources. That way we don't lose everything during a trip.

Brew12 · Jun 14, 2017

revhtree said:
If the heater was the problem would it not trip the GFCI as soon as I turn it on? I isolated them and ran them for a while and they ran fine. They're running now on the system.

In order for a GFCI to trip you need 2 conditions. You need a faulted piece of equipment and a path to ground. Since you don't have a ground probe you may only be getting a trip when salt creep gives you enough ground current.
As an example, if you take a glass heater, shatter it, and stick it into a bucket of salt water it will not trip a GFCI. All of the fault current will still go to the neutral wire and appear balanced. If you put a ground probe in that bucket with the heater it will trip the GFCI immediately. That is what makes troubleshooting faulted electrical equipment challenging without both a GFCI and a ground probe.

Maybe I need to write an article on this.... :confused:

RamsReef · Jun 14, 2017

boozeman27 said:
be aware, GFCI's go bad over time. might just need to replace it. :)

Maybe cheap ones, but I dont buy this...

Get hospital grade GFCI...

RamsReef · Jun 14, 2017

If you do suspect it is the GFCI (I think its one of your end devices)

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/s/ref=is_s?k=hospital+grade+gfci

Get hospital grade.

ksed · Jun 14, 2017

Install the portable GFI you have into a completely different outlet. Then install a power strip and plug all of your aquarium power sources into the power strip.
Have only one item plugged into the GFI that intermittently trips. Run it for several days like this .If your portable GFI trips then you know it's one of your power sources and not the GFI that was intermittently tripping.
On the other hand if your intermittent GFI trips then it's most likely the GFI. Providing the power source plugged into it is not leaking current.
All we are doing here is trying to isolate the GFI over a period of time.
HTH

RamsReef · Jun 14, 2017

Brew12 said:
In order for a GFCI to trip you need 2 conditions. You need a faulted piece of equipment and a path to ground. Since you don't have a ground probe you may only be getting a trip when salt creep gives you enough ground current.
As an example, if you take a glass heater, shatter it, and stick it into a bucket of salt water it will not trip a GFCI. All of the fault current will still go to the neutral wire and appear balanced. If you put a ground probe in that bucket with the heater it will trip the GFCI immediately. That is what makes troubleshooting faulted electrical equipment challenging without both a GFCI and a ground probe.

Maybe I need to write an article on this.... :confused:

Lol, I'm chasing down a DC ground right now.....

Brew12 · Jun 14, 2017

Ramasule said:
Lol, I'm chasing down a DC ground right now.....

Interestingly enough, so am I.

I have it narrowed down to just under 3,000 possible wiring points on the positive side of my substation battery. ;Blackeye

brett_schn · Jun 14, 2017

Wait what is the difference between gcfi and gfi

Brew12 · Jun 14, 2017

brett_schn said:
Wait what is the difference between gcfi and gfi

One letter :p

They were originally called ground fault interrupters before ground fault current interrupters became more popular.

jsker · Jun 14, 2017

For the laymen like myself, a ground probe is a multi meter? or tester? or are you referring to the ground in a 3 wire application?

A GCFI requires a 3 wire circuit, black, white and ground (bare copper/green), and once the circuit of any of the three are broken it trips the GCFI? or even if there is a loose connection in the chain??

My thinking is and I am not an election by the above questions:D the issue could be with the new construction and that each plug needs to be pulled and checked to see if each wire is properly tide with the proper wire nuts in the chain.

RamsReef · Jun 14, 2017

Brew12 said:
Interestingly enough, so am I.

I have it narrowed down to just under 3,000 possible wiring points on the positive side of my substation battery. ;Blackeye

Same but I have the meggar ground fault locator so its not so bad.

RamsReef · Jun 14, 2017

jsker said:
For the laymen like myself, a ground probe is a multi meter? or tester? or are you referring to the ground in a 3 wire application?

A GCFI requires a 3 wire circuit, black, white and ground (bare copper/green), and once the circuit of any of the three are broken it trips the GCFI? or even if there is a loose connection in the chain??

My thinking is and I am not an election by the above questions:D the issue could be with the new construction and that each plug needs to be pulled and checked to see if each wire is properly tide with the proper wire nuts in the chain.

Not really broken wire. If a wire comes into contact with the water and you have a ground probe.

Think of it this way... your electrical system is like your water system.

Wire is Pipe
Amps is flow
Volts is pressure

Your return pump is the outlet.
Your header is powerbar
Your reactors are lights, heaters, etc

So
A GFCI will supply pressure to your electrical system.
Unfortunely @revhtree was your plumber and now you have a leak...

Pressure leaking from your electrical system into your tank = bad news.

So, we would like to collect that leaking electrical water/pressure, this is what your ground probe does.

Now we have this would it not be nice if we could shut off our pump when we detect a leak?

Yes it would, so your gfci will use that information to determune if it should shut off the electrical pressure on the system. Which is what it does.

I hope this helped.

Ram

jsker · Jun 14, 2017

Ramasule said:
Not really broken wire. If a wire comes into contact with the water and you have a ground probe.

Think of it this way... your electrical system is like your water system.

Wire is Pipe
Amps is flow
Volts is pressure

Your return pump is the outlet.
Your header is powerbar
Your reactors are lights, heaters, etc

So
A GFCI will supply pressure to your electrical system.
Unfortunely @revhtree was your plumber and now you have a leak...

Pressure leaking from your electrical system into your tank = bad news.

So, we would like to collect that leaking electrical water/pressure, this is what your ground probe does.

Now we have this would it not be nice if we could shut off our pump when we detect a leak?

Yes it would, so your gfci will use that information to determune if it should shut off the electrical pressure on the system. Which is what it does.

I hope this helped.

Ram

@Ramasule thank you for dumbing it down for me to understand.:) We are always told what to do most of the times, but knowing why now explains things. :)

Brew12 · Jun 14, 2017

jsker said:
For the laymen like myself, a ground probe is a multi meter? or tester? or are you referring to the ground in a 3 wire application?

A GCFI requires a 3 wire circuit, black, white and ground (bare copper/green), and once the circuit of any of the three are broken it trips the GCFI? or even if there is a loose connection in the chain??

My thinking is and I am not an election by the above questions:D the issue could be with the new construction and that each plug needs to be pulled and checked to see if each wire is properly tide with the proper wire nuts in the chain.

A ground probe is simply a titanium rod that goes into your tank that is connected via a plug to your homes grounding system.

A GFCI only needs to have 2 wires, black and white, to work. They are fairly simple in nature. It measures the current in the black wire and compares it to the current in the white wire. If the two don't match the GFCI trips assuming the lost current must be taking an unintended path.

jsker · Jun 14, 2017

Brew12 said:
A ground probe is simply a titanium rod that goes into your tank that is connected via a plug to your homes grounding system.

A GFCI only needs to have 2 wires, black and white, to work. They are fairly simple in nature. It measures the current in the black wire and compares it to the current in the white wire. If the two don't match the GFCI trips assuming the lost current must be taking an unintended path.

Thank you, for the clarification.

revhtree · Jun 14, 2017

I was awake this morning when the GFCI tripped and it looks like it happened because the tank reached 78 degrees and turned on a 300w and 800w heater at one time. At least I am hoping that was why. I have removed the smaller heater for further testing.

justingraham · Jun 14, 2017

revhtree said:
I was awake this morning when the GFCI tripped and it looks like it happened because the tank reached 78 degrees and turned on a 300w and 800w heater at one time. At least I am hoping that was why. I have removed the smaller heater for further testing.

Good to hear

Are the heaters plugged into the apex?