Triton method VS calcium reactor

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hi Randy,

I think there is no easy way to accomplish this with a two part additive. Where do you add the sulfate to to avoid a relativ increase in chloride? In theory it can be added as sodium and potassium sulfate to the alkalinity solution but this would incrase the salt freight and would increase salinity a lot. So I guess no two part method adds sulfate and they accept a shift towards chloride. There is no way to avoid the addition of chloride and not balancing it with the right proportion of sulfate just means a shift towards chloride. In my eyes this means this claim is just a claim and it is not completely true.

This is easily accomplished, and is what is done. There is no shift toward chloride.

In my DIY, the sulfate comes with the magnesium sulfate in the magnesium third part. It is exactly balanced with respect to sulfate and chloride.

In a commercial material, it is put into the alkalinity part as sodium sulfate. It can be exactly balanced with respect to chloride and sulfate.

 

[Sharvey103]

Enjoying this discussion. I have a 300DD so I am running a Ca reactor with added Mg media. It has been up about 3 months and still dialing it in as I add SPS.

 

[Larry L]

I do appox 10% water changes for all 16+ years using both methods......my Mg stayed replenished by this.

Just curious: Is that 10% a week, or 10% a month, or... ?

I've had decent results doing automatic dosing with BRS 2-part, with occasional manual dosing of Magnesium if needed, and then sending off a sample to Triton every once in a great while to see if there are any important levels that are off by enough to worry about tweaking. I do a 5% water change weekly with Red Sea Coral Pro which I think keeps some of the trace elements replenished (as well as some of the Alk/Ca). At times I've thought about maybe switching to a calcium reactor only because it seems like the media might contain more trace elements than regular 2-part would provide, but I'm not unhappy enough with my current setup to make the switch.

 

[TylerS]

Interesting discussion! I would argue that Ca Rx vs triton method isn't an appropriate comparison. This is like comparing a complete four course meal (triton) to just a steak (Ca Rx).
The Ca Rx is just a method of regulating calcuim, alkalinity, magnesium and maybe some trace elements. Triton method is regulating calcuim, alkalinity, magnesium, trace elements, considers neutrient export, has a suggested sump design, testing to check for lack of elements or buildup of harmful ones etc.

The appropriate comparison is Ca Rx to just the dosing regime (as many have mentioned). From that perspective I presonally can't see how anything could be less complicated than dosing. I'm also not convinced that Ca Rx is cheaper than dosing (depends on product of course - and what assumptions you make about water change frequency, trace element additions, neutrient export, etc.).

 

[JOKER]

What happened?

Never dosed the same amount of both. Usually dosed more alk than cal. Both dosers were very close to the same when checking at 15 minute run. I split my doses up every 2 hours, and dosed alk odd hours and cal even hours to keep precipitate down. May have just been my system, but I know few in my club that had same trouble.

 

[JOKER]

These are the 2 methods I am thinking of using on my new build going up now. that is the reason for the comparison of the two. I plan to use triton testing from time to time as a lot of us do. I just am trying to decide if I want to approach the 0 water change triton or go cal RX with daily water exchange, and monthly or by monthly water changes.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Never dosed the same amount of both. Usually dosed more alk than cal. Both dosers were very close to the same when checking at 15 minute run. I split my doses up every 2 hours, and dosed alk odd hours and cal even hours to keep precipitate down. May have just been my system, but I know few in my club that had same trouble.

While there are factors that can make DIY two parts not properly balanced (not least of which is difficulty measuring solids by dry volume but imperfect design is another), some salt mixes have excessive alk or calcium and so water changes can mess with the needed balance of any system used to maintain calcium and alkalinity at whatever target levels your system has.

 

[JOKER]

Does anyone have any experience with DaStaCo reactors?

 

[atoll]

So, to answer the OPs original post.
Triton will be easier to dial in.

Implying calcium reactors are not, well not in my or that of many experience. One pump to feed or a tee off.

Its as simple as checking your alk routinely and keeping it at 8.0

Again implying a calcium reactor is not and again not IME or that of many.

The biggest pro is the ease of use.

Very subjective

The biggest con is all of the product you'll end up dosing in the long run when your tank matures.

I and thousands of us must be doing something wrong as I dose hardly anything apart from a little Iodine but try telling my thriving reef that.

And a calcium reactor has the opposite.

Really, Na?

Kind of a pain to dial in. Kind of a pain to keep alk stable (for beginners at least)

I of course disagree once dialled in little adjustment is required and no doser to go wrong and dump a load of chemicals into your tank as I have read all too often.

But the biggest pro for a CXReactor is the fact that you will probably only change media once a year. And co2 maybe twice a year. So its really good for all SPS systems.

Just 2 of the pros IMO.

I guess you for some reason just never got to grips with a calcium reactor for some reason while many of us enjoy the less fuss and easy to get on with calcium reactor method. Both methods however their followers and whatever works and floats your boat is fine but you have been rather unkind to calcium reactors IMO.

 

[Big E]

Just curious: Is that 10% a week, or 10% a month, or... ?

I've had decent results doing automatic dosing with BRS 2-part, with occasional manual dosing of Magnesium if needed, and then sending off a sample to Triton every once in a great while to see if there are any important levels that are off by enough to worry about tweaking. I do a 5% water change weekly with Red Sea Coral Pro which I think keeps some of the trace elements replenished (as well as some of the Alk/Ca). At times I've thought about maybe switching to a calcium reactor only because it seems like the media might contain more trace elements than regular 2-part would provide, but I'm not unhappy enough with my current setup to make the switch.

I say 10% per week, but currently with my setup it's more often 7-8%. My system is approx. 90g ...............I estimate this after displacement from live rock, coral, equip., ect. I normally suck out a 6g bucket. At times I may pull out 10% at once to get some detritus or whatever. I'm kind of anal, so I may suck up a patch of something I don't like in there mid-week.

I believe this level keeps my system balanced as well as providing anything that is depleted.........it's also going to dilute any chemicals that the corals are expelling, or any other nasties that are naturally occurring. It's also going to dilute anything that may come in from your household that you may not be aware of......for example from an air freshener or household cleaner.

I'm a bit lax on keeping this thread up to date on this forum ( I have one with more detail/updates on another forum) but I think the results prove two part and water changes work quite well.

http://reef2reef.com/threads/big-e-rimless-80g-sps.206607/page-6#post-3170848

Also, no one ever thinks about the fish..........they benefit as well. I can only go by my own personal experience but I've had tangs live over 20 years and other fish live much longer than many people.

People need to realize they are also adding trace elements through the food they feed the fish as well.

Here's an article from Randy showing some of these trace metal levels from food as well as some Calcium reactor media. I'm sure if you hunt around you can find some articles breaking down the other trace elements that are in certain brands of CR media.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-04/rhf/feature/

If I was using a full balling method......for example from Tropic Marin, I would probably reduce my water changes. I'd do it slowly until I found a level that seems best.

A calcium reactor is is going to put out those elements, but it may not be at the same balanced level of the salt your using so a water change can get you back to a baseline. With this I'd also probably do less water changes.

 

[atoll]

I use a DIY ATS and a calc reactor. The only real problem Triton recorded was with copper but then I hear lots get similar so called less than ideal levels of copper no matter what system they are running. I use coral gravel in my calc which adds trace elements and I have no issues with low or excessive levels of trace elements.

 

[6272862829]

Yes I like the calcium reactor for the stability, and low maintenance, I know will need to dose mag but that's not a problem as I have several dosers if needed. Cost is coming with any method whether it is up front or in the long run. If I go calcium reactor I am looking at the DaStaCo as my front runner. I also thought of balling method

Dosing mag will depend on your preference. I have not dosed mag anymore and my mag stays between 1280 and 1300 with reborn which is perfectly fine.

 

[JOKER]

Dosing mag will depend on your preference. I have not dosed mag anymore and my mag stays between 1280 and 1300 with reborn which is perfectly fine.

Cool. I will just have to keep a check on it. I am thinking with daily 2 gallon auto water change it will most likely stay pretty steady.

 

[griff500]

I have used Triton and now a Dastaco. Triton really does need a very decent size algae bed and a lot of people seem to have had issues with algae. The Dastaco couldn't be simpler to use and a very large number of SPS tanks in Europe seem to use calcium reactors. If I was starting again I would absolutely go with the reactor over Triton.

 

[JOKER]

I guess that sells me on the reactor. I'm not sure I will have a good algae bed from the get go. I do plan to run an ATS soon after starting but that would probably not be enough.

 

[rui.manuel.gaspar]

Hello Everyone.

Glad I found this discussion. Let me tell you my story ...

I started my tank 265g with Kalk. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/solar-dos-frades-reef-v2-265g-from-portugal.281918/
For 6 months everything was fine keeping the Alk, Ca and Mg.
After 6 months Kalk was not sufficient anymore and I moved to Randy two part solution. But i got completely crazy mixing the solutions. Specially KH. Even boiling the water, warming, you name it.

I switched to CalRx. I have a Deltec PF601 and tough I was able to maintain KH at 7 (as I like it) the Ca kept dropping from 420 to 330 in about 4/5 days. I was feeding the reactor thru the return pump manifold which drove me crazy as I had to adjust every single day. With that I went out of home a week for work and when I returned I had my KH at 5 due to not being able to maintain the proper flow thru the reactor.

I then decided to switch to Triton not because I wanted to keep track of traces but because it is very easy to mix the solutions.

That said I am very happy with the results (not from triton but for the fact that I do 200l NSW waterchange every 3/4 days) and with that my consumption is @ 200ml of each solution per day just to maintain 6.5/6.8 dKH which is driving the cost really high.

So I am considering moving back to CalRx now that I have a peristaltic pump but as you can imagine I am in PANIC MODE !!!!

What should be the best way to acomplish the transition? and is it possible to keep alk @ 7 and Ca @ 400?

Any advice would be really appreciated.

On a note here: I am having problems with my glass as it seems to be opening so I will transition to a new aquarium really soon. With that I am assuming the corals will stop growing and that will ease the transition.

All the best,
Rui

 

[griff500]

It is absolutely possible but the pump really helps and, as you have discovered, running a CaRX via the manifold is not really ideal at all.

I use a Dastaco and it is rock solid and very easy. The Pacific Sun CaRX also looks very good.

 

[technojunky101]

Been using calcium reactors for 5 years no way would I ever go dosing route but each there own duel chamber greatly helps pH but look at design some will use more gas then needed found with reef octopus there's valve at top if removed on recirculating side and just run tube to side of reactor without valve cuts way back on gas and air in chamber. Mag added to media set and forget have running 3/8 feed to keep getting clogged recalibrate probe every 6 months good to go. Carbondoser.com regulators are life saver and make things allot easier. For me dosing pumps scare me if they fail mix wrong your screwed. I'm surprised this method is rated to be so hard and expensive cause in reality not bad that so much easier long term and a lot cheaper.

 

[rui.manuel.gaspar]

Yes. but the question remains ... how to change from Triton to CaRX? This is the dangerous step I think!

 

[griff500]

Been using calcium reactors for 5 years no way would I ever go dosing route but each there own duel chamber greatly helps pH but look at design some will use more gas then needed found with reef octopus there's valve at top if removed on recirculating side and just run tube to side of reactor without valve cuts way back on gas and air in chamber. Mag added to media set and forget have running 3/8 feed to keep getting clogged recalibrate probe every 6 months good to go. Carbondoser.com regulators are life saver and make things allot easier. For me dosing pumps scare me if they fail mix wrong your screwed. I'm surprised this method is rated to be so hard and expensive cause in reality not bad that so much easier long term and a lot cheaper.

No recalibration required for Dastaco or Pacific Sun calcium reactors.