Triton: Why can't I mix the 4 components in one container?

[Casper T.]

As the title says:
Triton: Why can't I mix the 4 components in one container?

/Casper

 

[Potatohead]

Because various elements will precipitate out (fall out of solution).

Three parts is the minimum they can be mixed into

 

[Casper T.]

My idea was to mix all 4 components in my top off rodi water. I have a 16L container and my Aquarium uses 2L a day. So I would mix 8 x times daily dosage in the container. Would that still be a problem?

 

[LegendaryCG]

My idea was to mix all 4 components in my top off rodi water. I have a 16L container and my Aquarium uses 2L a day. So I would mix 8 x times daily dosage in the container. Would that still be a problem?

Not gonna work

 

[Casper T.]

Not gonna work

Why? And why doesn't the same thing happen in the Aquarium. I don't know the Chemistry behind this, and know it is probably complicated.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Everything in the hobby is done for a reason, and if it could be simplified, it would be.

That said, it is not an unreasonable question to ask why it could be mixed in the tank and not in top off water.

There are several answers, the most simplistic of which is to say that the chemicals will precipitate from freshwater at the concentrations involved, but not from seawater at the same, or in this case, much lower concentration it will be in the aquarium.

The last point is the trickiest one. in short, calcium carbonate is FAR more soluble in seawater than it is in fresh water at the same concentration. One of the main reasons is the other ions in solution, and one of the things they do is get onto growing calcium carbonate crystals and prevent more precipitation. Magnesium does this well, as does phosphate and organics of various sorts that are present in the aquarium and not in fresh water, or in the case of phosphate and organics, even in new salt water where precipitation is much more likely than in a reef aquarium.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

This article explains the magnesium effect in much greater detail:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-06/rhf/index.php

 

[131696]

Alk,cal,mag can be mixed together proof ,All in 1 solutions are sold on BRS and everywhere else you just got to find the right mixture for your tank. Might work them all in 1 are for small tank.they should make some for larger tanks to use just 1 dosing pump needed.I say test it out because there are products that are all in 1 alk,cal.mag that do it in same containors.

 

[LegendaryCG]

Alk,cal,mag can be mixed together proof ,All in 1 solutions are sold on BRS and everywhere else you just got to find the right mixture for your tank. Might work them all in 1 are for small tank.they should make some for larger tanks to use just 1 dosing pump needed.I say test it out because there are products that are all in 1 alk,cal.mag that do it in same containors.

Those arent the same as mixing triton together. Its closer to kalk.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Alk,cal,mag can be mixed together proof ,All in 1 solutions are sold on BRS and everywhere else you just got to find the right mixture for your tank. Might work them all in 1 are for small tank.they should make some for larger tanks to use just 1 dosing pump needed.I say test it out because there are products that are all in 1 alk,cal.mag that do it in same containors.

You might look closer at what is in those before causing the OP to waste his product combining them.

All in one products are of several types, NONE of which are the simple combinations the OP asked about.

Many of them are calcium formate or calcium acetate. That can provide calcium and alkalinity (after bacteria metabolize the organic part). They have pros and cons, and I'm not a fan of them for a variety of raesons (problems measuring dosing by alkalinity, and an organic carbon dosing effect whether you want one or not), but some folks like them.

Some are calcium hydroxide and have a limited solubility (so low dosing potency), but are a decent one shot calcium and alk additive. I sued this for 20 years.

The last category are simple dry mixes of ordinary calcium and alk additives that CANNOT be dissolved in fresh water for the exact reasons given above, and must be added directly to the aquarium.

 

[ReefPig]

I recently conducted a test for six weeks (only stopped it two weeks ago), where I added additional Triton elements via my RO, which is big enough for 7 days of top off.

When I say additional elements, I mean: Vanadium, Manganese, Iodine, and a small amount of iron, molybdenum and zinc.

These elements are always low on my ICP's and have been manually dosing these for quite a while, usually once a week, as the volume on some of them is extremely low.

I thought the same, why can't I just throw them into my RO and it'll just work, if anything it'll be more stable.

Over the course of six weeks I did three ICP's, to monitor the situation.
The ICP's identified significant drop in elements, where previously the same volume of elements manually dosed was keeping the value steady.

Iodine was the big one, almost like the additional element in the RO just vanished (i know iodine is VERY complex, and I understand about 1% of it, so I'm not even going to try and explain).

The thing which made me pull the plug on the experiment, as I was considering just upping the elements in the RO, was the fact that a mystery brown algae was starting to appear inside my RO containers, a light dusting at first, but quickly covered the bottom and most of the way up the sides.
This happened in the space of a couple of weeks, where previously the containers were sterile and perfectly clean.

Long story short, some crazy stuff happens to the elements when you try mixing them together in RO.

I don't recommend you trying this, there be dragons.

 

[ReefPig]

Alk,cal,mag can be mixed together proof ,All in 1 solutions are sold on BRS and everywhere else you just got to find the right mixture for your tank. Might work them all in 1 are for small tank.they should make some for larger tanks to use just 1 dosing pump needed.I say test it out because there are products that are all in 1 alk,cal.mag that do it in same containors.

Ignore the above post, do NOT do this with Triton solutions, which are EXTREMELY concentrated. In fact, they're 7 times more concentrated then normal 2 part (hence the name, Core 7).
They WILL NOT mix together at all, and if anything, is dangerous.

I had about 50ml of each solution of core 7 left in my 4 section dosing container. I wanted to clean it out and refill.
I poured them all into sink together, solution 1 and solution 2 became thick and white, with hard lumps quickly appearing. It became like whipped cream, if not thicker.

There was a distinct chemical smell, which was not normal with Core 7.

I quickly opened all the doors and windows and left the room. I had no idea what was going on. I eventually washed it down the sink, but it took some breaking up and stirring.

These chemicals are not meant to be combined together in this concentration.

Do not attempt to do what 125 said, this is terrible advice.

 

[Casper T.]

Thank you all for the answers. I will stick to dosing each of them. And if I get tired of it, I will find an all in one product

 

[ReefPig]

Thank you all for the answers. I will stick to dosing each of them. And if I get tired of it, I will find an all in one product

Assume you're using a 4 head doser, and not doing it manually?
If not, then I completely agree. I wouldn't even try doing Triton manually, sounds like a pain in the butt.

 

[LegendaryCG]

Assume you're using a 4 head doser, and not doing it manually?
If not, then I completely agree. I wouldn't even try doing Triton manually, sounds like a pain in the butt.

Agree I dose the 4 6 hours apart.

 

[ReefPig]

Agree I dose the 4 6 hours apart.

I'm currently doing 12 x 1.1ml.
Been running Triton from new tank over a year ago, and was dosing as low as 1ml per day initially, but this was difficult, things started working better after 4ml per day.

Since then, I decided to spread out the dosage, where I increase the individual dosage up to 1.9ml, then next time I increase, I split it out to a new dose, reducing back to 1ml per dose.

I'll happily carry on with this until 24 doses.

 

[LegendaryCG]

I'm currently doing 12 x 1.1ml.
Been running Triton from new tank over a year ago, and was dosing as low as 1ml per day initially, but this was difficult, things started working better after 4ml per day.

Since then, I decided to spread out the dosage, where I increase the individual dosage up to 1.9ml, then next time I increase, I split it out to a new dose, reducing back to 1ml per dose.

I'll happily carry on with this until 24 doses.

I’m at 2ml but my tank is young. Acros are doing pretty well for a month old tank though.

 

[s_spowart]

I believe from what the manufacturer says about these elements, you can only mix solutions 3a and 3b together. The other chemicals will react with each other.
In fact it says on the packet that when dosing leave a minimum of 5 minutes between dosing of each solution, and dose in equal quantities of each solution (although if mixing 3a and 3b you need to use double the dosage from that bottle).
Best to follow manufacturers advise.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I believe from what the manufacturer says about these elements, you can only mix solutions 3a and 3b together. The other chemicals will react with each other.
In fact it says on the packet that when dosing leave a minimum of 5 minutes between dosing of each solution, and dose in equal quantities of each solution (although if mixing 3a and 3b you need to use double the dosage from that bottle).
Best to follow manufacturers advise.

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

Yes, that is correct (but don't assume all manufacturer statements are correct lol, many are not correct). There is no multipart system where you can mix either the calcium or the magnesium parts (whether they are separate or together) with the alkalinity part(s) because you will get precipitation of calcium carbonate (or calcium hydroxide, if it is my ultra high pH DIY system), magnesium carbonate, and magnesium hydroxide.