Tropic Marin Amino Organic

[bandando]

More or less I undestand. But I don’t undestand the differences between NP Phos and Phos Feed.

 

[reefluvrr]

More or less I undestand. But I don’t undestand the differences between NP Phos and Phos Feed.

NP Phos is a carbon dosing method where I believe molecular phosphate is added in the solution.
The bacteria in your tank has to 'eat' the phosphate which then those bacteria gets eaten by coral polyps. Coral polyps are not as efficient 'eatting' free floating phosphate in water column.

I wonder if your nutrients levels are so low already if you really need to carbon dose? Carbon dosing may further effect your Nitrogen nutrient level as well.

Phos Feed has phosphate inside some sort of microparticle which now allows the coral polyp eat those microparticle embedded with phosphate directly. I found this info on a website:

Tropic Marin ® Phos-Feed The supply of phosphate is also an important factor for reef aquariums that are already established. Tropic Marin ® Phos-Feed adds phosphate microparticles to the reef aquarium, which are filtered directly from the water by the corals, without the water being permanently contaminated with dissolved phosphate, just like in a natural reef. In this way, the corals are supplied directly with the vital phosphate and phosphate adsorption by the rock and the substrate is largely avoided. Particulate phosphate catalyses and enhances biological processes which are particularly important for good and regular coral growth, a nice polyp opening and bright coral colors.​

In a sense you are going from A to C without stopping at B. Whereas carbon dosing, you have to go from A to B to C.

You could also always feed more of your fish.

 

[bandando]

NP Phos is a carbon dosing method where I believe molecular phosphate is added in the solution.
The bacteria in your tank has to 'eat' the phosphate which then those bacteria gets eaten by coral polyps. Coral polyps are not as efficient 'eatting' free floating phosphate in water column.

I wonder if your nutrients levels are so low already if you really need to carbon dose? Carbon dosing may further effect your Nitrogen nutrient level as well.

Phos Feed has phosphate inside some sort of microparticle which now allows the coral polyp eat those microparticle embedded with phosphate directly. I found this info on a website:

Tropic Marin ® Phos-Feed The supply of phosphate is also an important factor for reef aquariums that are already established. Tropic Marin ® Phos-Feed adds phosphate microparticles to the reef aquarium, which are filtered directly from the water by the corals, without the water being permanently contaminated with dissolved phosphate, just like in a natural reef. In this way, the corals are supplied directly with the vital phosphate and phosphate adsorption by the rock and the substrate is largely avoided. Particulate phosphate catalyses and enhances biological processes which are particularly important for good and regular coral growth, a nice polyp opening and bright coral colors.​

In a sense you are going from A to C without stopping at B. Whereas carbon dosing, you have to go from A to B to C.

You could also always feed more of your fish.

Thank you for your explanation.

Probably to decide between NP Phos and Phos Feed I have to know the total phosphate in the water.
But, I don't have algae in my tank, probably the phosphate is really very low.
So, dosing carbon may not be necessary and Phos Feed is the best choice.
I have three fish, I increased the food but PO4 always <0,01 mg / L.
I already bought NP Phos but I don't want to use it immediately.
Phos Feed is not easilly available in Italy, I haven't found it online yet but I continue to search it, also abroad.

 

[reefluvrr]

Thank you for your explanation.

Probably to decide between NP Phos and Phos Feed I have to know the total phosphate in the water.
But, I don't have algae in my tank, probably the phosphate is really very low.
So, dosing carbon may not be necessary and Phos Feed is the best choice.
I have three fish, I increased the food but PO4 always <0,01 mg / L.
I already bought NP Phos but I don't want to use it immediately.
Phos Feed is not easilly available in Italy, I haven't found it online yet but I continue to search it, also abroad.

Good luck, I also have not found it in the U.S. yet.

Hopefully Hans can chime in if I given you any wrong information about their products.

 

[bandando]

Phos Feed is not available.
l have decided to start with NP Plus but I have a dubt.
It is better to begin with half dose (1 ml for 200 litres) or full dose?

 

[reefluvrr]

I think your goal is to increase phosphate in your tank.
1st know what levels your po4 is at. Then I would try 1/2 dose 1st. Wait about 1 hour remeasure your phosphate level to see how much it may have increased. Then remeasure at 12 hours to see what the levels are at again. Do this a few times during the week. Hopefully this gives you an idea how much phosphate is added to your tank and how it may quickly be utilized by your tank.

Then you can figure out if you feel comfortable or not to move up to higher doses.

 

[bandando]

great suggestion, thank you

 

[bandando]

contraindications with DSB?

My tank has DSB and live rock

 

[reefluvrr]

contraindications with DSB?

My tank has DSB and live rock

None that I know of.

 

[bandando]

One things it is not clear for me. With Plus NP or Bacto Balance have I to dose also bacteria daily?
Thanks

 

[reefluvrr]

One things it is not clear for me. With Plus NP or Bacto Balance have I to dose also bacteria daily?
Thanks

No you do not have to dose bacteria daily if at all.

One of the reason people dose bacteria is to find a way to quickly reduce phosphate and nitrate. This is not what you are trying to accomplish. I believe you want to increase your phosphate levels.

I believe it would be better for you to naturally let whatever good bacteria you already have in your tank to increase with carbon dosing. Let your bacteria in your tank find a new equilibrium while carbon dosing. This way you do not have to worry about supplementing bacteria in a bottle periodically.

 

[bandando]

No you do not have to dose bacteria daily if at all.

One of the reason people dose bacteria is to find a way to quickly reduce phosphate and nitrate. This is not what you are trying to accomplish. I believe you want to increase your phosphate levels.

I believe it would be better for you to naturally let whatever good bacteria you already have in your tank to increase with carbon dosing. Let your bacteria in your tank find a new equilibrium while carbon dosing. This way you do not have to worry about supplementing bacteria in a bottle periodically.

Ok , thank you for your help.

 

[Hans-Werner]

Thanks, all question seem to be clarified already. I could not have done it much better.

If you don't have any problems with algae or cyanobacteria 0.5 ppm nitrate is absolutely sufficient as nutrient for corals. Higher nitrate concentrations have other effects inhibiting algae and cyanobacteria growth. Plus-NP is the right choice since Phos-Feed is not available everywhere yet.

 

[bandando]

Thanks, all question seem to be clarified already. I could not have done it much better.

If you don't have any problems with algae or cyanobacteria 0.5 ppm nitrate is absolutely sufficient as nutrient for corals. Higher nitrate concentrations have other effects inhibiting algae and cyanobacteria growth. Plus-NP is the right choice since Phos-Feed is not available everywhere yet.

@Hans-Werner Thank you for your confirm. Meanwhile I'm dosing 0,50 ml each day (25% of full dose) for the first week. Next week I will increase to 1 ml each day.

 

[Biologic]

Thanks, all question seem to be clarified already. I could not have done it much better.

If you don't have any problems with algae or cyanobacteria 0.5 ppm nitrate is absolutely sufficient as nutrient for corals. Higher nitrate concentrations have other effects inhibiting algae and cyanobacteria growth. Plus-NP is the right choice since Phos-Feed is not available everywhere yet.

I just picked up some Amino Organic! Very interested to try Phos-Feed when my LFS receives some.

Have not started using AminoOrganic yet. I am actually fighting a green form of cynobacteria in my sump. Not sure where I picked this up from, as I have not purchased corals or fish in months.

Display looks fine. I am treating with Dr. Tim's ReFresh and Waste Away, which are bacterial products to attack the nutrients that causes cyanobacteria outbreaks. I am surprised to see how well those products are working. Corals look great otherwise. For me personally, I have noticed that increasing Nitrate drives more cyanobacteria growth. Or perhaps its was the potassium that was in the nitrate supplement fueling it?

I will report back once I get it under control.

 

[Hans-Werner]

I have noticed that increasing Nitrate drives more cyanobacteria growth. Or perhaps its was the potassium that was in the nitrate supplement fueling it?

Yes, interesting and a bit funny also, everything and its opposite seem to cause or fight cyanobacteria growth. You just confirmed it.

It depends from the other nutrients that are limiting and non-limiting.

Cyanobaceria are in (nearly) every system, in outbreaks or blooms they just get much more visible by increased numbers and densities.

 

[Superlightman]

Some return of experience, guys?

 

[iiluisii]

Yes, interesting and a bit funny also, everything and its opposite seem to cause or fight cyanobacteria growth. You just confirmed it.

It depends from the other nutrients that are limiting and non-limiting.

Cyanobaceria are in (nearly) every system, in outbreaks or blooms they just get much more visible by increased numbers and densities.

Hans,
I have been running np bacto balance, amino-organic and phos-feed. Currently dosing .25 np bacto balance and and 2.5ml of amino organic, 2ml in 100ml of ro water daily in a 25 gallon. I started to get a little bit of small stringy cyano that is barely noticeable and my filter pads are getting white snot so I’m thinking I’m dosing too much amino organics.

From reading this thread I found out you only can dose max 1ml of np bacto balance and amino organic together so I will start dosing only .65ml per day.

My nutrients readings are
.17 nitrates
.012 phosphates

I also run zeolite and dose 2 drops 2 times per week of zeobac and 2 drops 3 times per week of zeo food and .50ml of nitribiotic once per week.

Tank is doing amazing other than that small barely noticiable cyano and the white snot on the filter pads. Do you recommend I stop the amino organic and just keep the phosfeed going? The white snot and the barely noticiable cyano started after dosing organic amino. But yes I realized I was over dosing it.