Truf Algae Scrubber in tank while cycle is going on

[ghazanfar.ansari]

Hi All,
I have just started y cycling my tank. Have ammonia under 0.05 and NO2 and NO3 off charts (using tropic marine mini lab). I was just wondering that if a Truf Algae Scrubber is installed and made operative. It will surely take some time to kickin, but would help in quick reduction of NO2 and NO3. What other effects would that have on cycle process of tank.

 

[blaxsun]

I'd probably leave any scrubber, skimmers, UVs and reactors off until after the tank has cycled. Basic filter sock filtration only.

 

[ghazanfar.ansari]

I's probably leave any scrubber, skimmers, UVs and reactors off until after the tank has cycled. Basic filter sock filtration only.

ok. thanks

 

[Dan_P]

Hi All,
I have just started y cycling my tank. Have ammonia under 0.05 and NO2 and NO3 off charts (using tropic marine mini lab). I was just wondering that if a Truf Algae Scrubber is installed and made operative. It will surely take some time to kickin, but would help in quick reduction of NO2 and NO3. What other effects would that have on cycle process of tank.

If nitrite is present, the nitrate test gives a very high number that does not reflect the true nitrate level.

Establishing a nitrifying biofilm usually involves letting the nitrite level decline by nitrite oxidizing bacteria consumption.

Starting an algae scrubber requires the presence of algae in the system unless you were thinking of using a scrubber filled with a macro algae like Chaeto. New systems may not contain photosynthesizing organisms unless started with live rock. Also, some folks report poor or no Chaeto growth in new systems, though is it because of the aquarist or conditions in the system.

If you feel like experimenting, give the scrubber idea a try.

 

[Turbo's Aquatics]

You can run an algae scrubber from day one, it's not going to hurt anything. If anything, it can help to keep the levels from fluctuating wildly during cycling.

A couple things to keep in mind:

Without a lot of biodiversity, the algae growth will probably not be very consistent or reliable. You might get a ton of slime growth that you have to rinse off every week (or more often) but that slime is actually performing a function, so that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Without a lot of nutrient load (i.e. waste produced by live animals - fish and corals) it is very easy to over-light the scrubber and end up with zero growth. You will want to be able to either dim the lights or knock down the intensity with a diffuser (like the prismatic diffuser material you see in grid-mounted 2x4 light fixtures, material you can get at Lowe's in the ceiling tile section). In addition to that, you will want to limit the amount of "on" time to only a few hours a day, and it's best to use an on/off strategy to keep the length of continuous "on" time down to 30-60 minute intervals. Without bioload, you probably only need 2 hours or so of total "on" time per day

Flow across the scrubber screen can be minimal - just enough to cover about 75-90% of the screen with flow, and you definitely don't want it blasting down the screen. Low gentle flow will prevent algae or slime that does manage to get a foothold from washing away.

When you have low load/diversity, the combination of low flow and low intensity light for short periods is important. It's a function of available nutrient being delivered to the screen and the algae's ability to grow without photosaturation (too much light, not enough nutrients). Intensity is the most important factor there, duration is less critical, but you can't always easily reduce intensity.

HTH
Bud

 

[ghazanfar.ansari]

thankyou all gurus for help. just a quick update on my cycle. started tank cycling and with dates the test results are as under;

Parameter		Ammonia ppm	pH	Alkalinity	Specific Gravity	Specific Gravity	Specific Gravity
Date	Day
29-Oct-21​	Friday	2​	8.4​	9​	0.5​	10​	1.025​
05-Nov-21​	Friday	5​	8.4​	8​	0.5​		1.026​
06-Nov-21​	Saturday	3​	8.4​	9.5​	1​	15​	1.026​
12-Nov-21​	Friday	0.1​	8​	8​	2​	2​	1.026​
15-Nov-21​	Monday	0.05​	8​	7.5​	2​	50​	1.025​
19-Nov-21​	Friday	0.05​	8​	8​	2​	50​	1.025​
22-Nov-21​	Monday	0.02​	8​	8.4​	2​	50​	1.025​

One of my buddies an old reefer just said that the cycling is complete, and I can start with Vinegar dosing to reduce my Nitrites, Nitrates etc.

Please also guide me on this.


Note: I have installed the scrubber, but have not yet operated it.

 

[Turbo's Aquatics]

You only list ammonia tests, but after a month I'd say you're pretty safe to assume the nitrogen cycle is complete.

Now you are into what I refer to as the Reef Cycle, which is more like a 6 month process. There are a ton of things going on in a reef system that you can't really test for.

 

[ghazanfar.ansari]

to increase my knowledge of the subject can you please shed more light on Reef Cycle. Nitrogen Cycle is quite clear... but reef cycle is some thing new for me.
Apologies for asking very basic questions.

 

[ghazanfar.ansari]

You only list ammonia tests, but after a month I'd say you're pretty safe to assume the nitrogen cycle is complete.

Now you are into what I refer to as the Reef Cycle, which is more like a 6 month process. There are a ton of things going on in a reef system that you can't really test for.

just saw the heading were mixed up, here is correct table with headings please

		Ammonia ppm	pH	Alkalinity	Nitrite	Nitrate	Specific Gravity
29-Oct-21​	Friday	2​	8.4​	9​	0.5​	10​	1.025​
05-Nov-21​	Friday	5​	8.4​	8​	0.5​		1.026​
06-Nov-21​	Saturday	3​	8.4​	9.5​	1​	15​	1.026​
12-Nov-21​	Friday	0.1​	8​	8​	2​	2​	1.026​
15-Nov-21​	Monday	0.05​	8​	7.5​	2​	50​	1.025​
19-Nov-21​	Friday	0.05​	8​	8​	2​	50​	1.025​
22-Nov-21​	Monday	0.02​	8​	8.4​	2​	50​	1.025​

 

[Turbo's Aquatics]

It's odd that you're getting any nitrite readings, but just so you know Nitrite is not dangerous in saltwater until it hits like 100ppm. It has to do with the chemistry of saltwater

Regarding the reef cycle, there are a lot of bacterial colonies that need to develop in a saltwater system. Some of these develop deep in the rock and are anaerobic, these are the ones that can perform denitrification. So unlike most freshwater systems, you can balance out a saltwater system in such a way that you don't have to perform water changes to remove nitrate (usually this means a diverse system that is fed minimally, most people do not feed minimally)

You will have a series of mini-cycles occurring almost constantly while the biodiveristy of the system builds up, so you can have swings in testable chemical levels that might make you think you need to make drastic corrections. These corrections can interrupt the natural process or kick-start a different one, etc...a lot of these types of things lead to people quitting in 6-12 months.

I wish there was a different article that I could share but here's the best one that I've always defaulted to:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-01/eb/

Edit: go to #15

 

[Turbo's Aquatics]

In addition to an algae scrubber, I would look into micro-nano bubbling and Aquachar.

https://elegantcorals.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/65645917_204059130511376_2993653022048911360_n.jpg

 

[brandon429]

Agreed with all advice here, nice cycling post.
post pics of your tank so we can see degree of surface area in play

 

[ghazanfar.ansari]

Agreed with all advice here, nice cycling post.
post pics of your tank so we can see degree of surface area in play

pics from today morning, please ignore the return transparent box, as i am planning to fix GSP to grow on it.

 

[brandon429]

Just saw update: solid reef! Already looks matured with spots of pigment and color contrasts etc
It’s not 100% bright white reflective surfaces like so many new tanks

that will work better above to help have less algae challenges as it matures. that degree of surface area will run any common bioload in reefing large or small. In my cycle threads we wouldn’t care if you ran three skimmers and three turf scrubbers during cycling, it won’t change our collective start dates. I don’t even care if they want to run UV, it’s not thorough enough to stop a cycle in reefing, I haven’t found anything other than removing the water that could stop a cycle

 

[brandon429]

In fact one funny hidden inversion exists in your plan: we can discern your cycle done date by the scrubber due to what’s mentioned above


it’ll start as bare plastic with water motion in it. As soon as any slime growth or light spec of algae adheres in that scrubber, the ammonia control cycle for all that surface area is done.


all that surface area in the same water thats able to produce new benthic growth inside a plastic chamber will be full of ammonia oxidizing bacteria.

This isn’t a crazy statement though it sounds so updated cycling science has a rule of benthic growth verification and new scums in a brand new filter counts 100% as benthic growth visual identification (all secondary growths occur on top of initial primary filtration bacteria growth we can’t visually see: the presence of the secondary new growth layer we can see verifies the first layer is ready)


Im saying in 100% of cases any seneye verified ammonia testing will show total ammonia control among rocks from any system sitting long enough for new algae or cyano to grow within its waters. Those growths dont just appear on day 2 for example, they appear after day ten on a cycling chart. Day ten on a cycling chart = ammonia drop date, all this stuff ties in.

 

[Turbo's Aquatics]

That's an interesting piece of insight.

On a side note, my OCD is getting triggered because of the misspelling of "Turf" in the thread title.

 

[ghazanfar.ansari]

That's an interesting piece of insight.

On a side note, my OCD is getting triggered because of the misspelling of "Turf" in the thread title.

Oops just saw and realized it... Hehe.

 

[ghazanfar.ansari]

In fact one funny hidden inversion exists in your plan: we can discern your cycle done date by the scrubber due to what’s mentioned above


it’ll start as bare plastic with water motion in it. As soon as any slime growth or light spec of algae adheres in that scrubber, the ammonia control cycle for all that surface area is done.


all that surface area in the same water thats able to produce new benthic growth inside a plastic chamber will be full of ammonia oxidizing bacteria.

This isn’t a crazy statement though it sounds so updated cycling science has a rule of benthic growth verification and new scums in a brand new filter counts 100% as benthic growth visual identification (all secondary growths occur on top of initial primary filtration bacteria growth we can’t visually see: the presence of the secondary new growth layer we can see verifies the first layer is ready)


Im saying in 100% of cases any seneye verified ammonia testing will show total ammonia control among rocks from any system sitting long enough for new algae or cyano to grow within its waters. Those growths dont just appear on day 2 for example, they appear after day ten on a cycling chart. Day ten on a cycling chart = ammonia drop date, all this stuff ties in.

Another thing I have added TLF NPX bioballs .. as well.. will be posting updated results tomorrow. As it would be two days old by then.

 

[ghazanfar.ansari]

Hi, I did my test today All: 8.4, Ammo 0.02, Nitrite: 2.0 ppm plus as it was more darker and NO3: 50ppm plus ... I am not able to understand the same values are coming since last three test... Remaining parameters are in check... Just NO2 and NO3 are out 9f control....

 

[Turbo's Aquatics]

I've always follow the rule of thumb that your nitrogen cycle is complete when you can dose your ammonia up to 1.0 ppm and it fully converts to Nitrate within 24 hours (i.e. you should not have any ammonia or nitrite after 24 hours, and should see a rise in Nitrate)