Cycle a tank - Whats happening?

[taricha]

most of those "sus products" seem to revolve around Bacteria to start a tank, most claim you need to give their product 7 to 10 days to work, which is the EXACT time needed if you use Fish Food, frozen or flake, to start your cycle naturally.

If you try to actually measure rates of nitrification for various products, you come to a different conclusion..

Results for the ammonia-only tests of 1st 3 groups.
The color groupings are arbitrary, and the days shouldn't be taken as definitive. Changes in flow, temp, surfaces etc could make these faster. These are responses under the most restrictive conditions - simply ammonia, gently moving water, and time.

Links to data posts...
Group 1: post 45
Group 2: post 64 and post 96
Group 3: post 141

Some are fast, some are slow, and some are not appropriate at all for ammonia-only "fishless" cycling.
And my tank water by itself goes months before it starts to show nitrifying activity on ammonia.

 

[LongbowLw]

Well, I was like not gona wait next week, so i change 80 percent of water.I did little aquascaping,added 2 dry rocks yesterday. Did a test today morning 0.2ppm NH4, 0.1 NO2, 1 ppm NO3... ordered 2 clown fish and 1 discosoma, they gona be here on tuesday so, i hope you all was right or this gona be a sad story ... gona update you at the end of the week if fish are still alive, i still got a bad feeling that my tank isnt ready for them but as you said 1 month and 2 weeks now, should be good

 

[AquaLogic]

No tanks is still uncycled after 30 days.

 

[Garf]

10 days without any Bottled Bacteria

But you transferred rock from your previous setup, that's cheating, lol.

You might also note that i did not use any Live Rock, I bought all dry/dead marco rock. But I did use Caribsea Aragonite Live Sand, About 280lbs of it.

Where did the "live" portion of the sand come from?

 

[Garf]

No tanks is still uncycled after 30 days.

Are you including nitrite in this statement?

 

[AquaLogic]

Are you including nitrite in this statement?

I’m not worried about nitrite. As long as ammonia is being converted to safe levels, the nitrite content is inconsequential as far as I understand.

If his tank isn’t converting ammonia after 30 days something is very wrong.

 

[Dan_P]

Hello fellow reefers, iam new at this hobby and from the start things going pretty interesting. I started my 30 gallon aquarium a month and a week ago, still isnt cycled. Things that are happening are these: When i started i decided to do shrimp method so u put 2 small shrimps in my tank and microlift special blend bacteria, i measured after 3 days ammonia and it was 0,2 ppm, i was thinking maybe these shrimps are small also they was coctail shrimp so i decided to change them for 2 bigger fresh shrimps. Next day at morning i measured 3+ppm ammonia, i was like nice the cycle can start, i putted the shrimps away and wait. After next week i started to add Microlift Nite Out(supposed to be starting bacteria) and also did Gel filter on my ceramic filter(was thinking that it might help the cycle). After 2 weeks ammonia didnt move a bit and NO2 was at 0,1 ppm NO3 0ppm.
So i started to think, maybe the ammonia is too high , i decided to change half of water. Ammonia than was like 1,5ppm. So i waited next week it drops to 0,6 ppm. i waited next week and it was still at 0,6ppm 0,1ppm NO2 and 2ppm NO3. So again i decided to put little bit of shrimp inside and now my ammonia is between 1,5ppm - 3 ppm(the test got this wierd scale so) . Again after 1 week didnt move a bit, got ammonia 1,5ppm - 3 ppm, 0,2 pp NO2, 3 ppm NO3.(Edit: iam still adding the nite out bacteria it says should be added every day until there is 0ppm of ammonia) What am i doing wrong? I was guessing that cycle should be finished by now, but that measurements are so low and iam lost in it tbh. For aquascape i used dry rock and dry sand. In filtration i got 2 sponges, 1 ceramic filter(also i was thinking that it should help bacteria to got place to live).Got 2 pumps there 1 wave pump and 1 from filtration.(Filtration is inside the tank, doesnt have a sump) Temperature 78-79 F , Ph 8,5, Salinity 1,025. Can someone give me advice what should i improve or do to do that cycle properly? I think i wait so long and it starting to be little bit frustrating. (Also iam from slovakia so sorry for a bad language )

The aquarium is unlikely to have a strong population of nitrifying bacteria. Your measurements prove there is likely the presence of o very weak population of bacteria. Be careful about sticking fish and invertebrates too quickly. They could overwhelm the bacteria and result in an undesreable ammonia level.

I suspect the bottled bacteria you used was not the correct type or was very slow to start. There is always a possibility that the product was inactive and the meager activity seen, little or no ammonia reduction and very little nitrite production, were the bacteria introduced from the air.

Good luck!

 

[LongbowLw]

I’m not worried about nitrite. As long as ammonia is being converted to safe levels, the nitrite content is inconsequential as far as I understand.

If his tank isn’t converting ammonia after 30 days something is very wrong.

It convert from 1.5 to 0.6 and stop, I didnt add anything or do anything it Just stopped for a week, now iam hoping that until tuesday that 0.2ppm would dissapear or i háve to change half water or something again.. that why I asked if iam doing something wrong or whats happening

 

[Garf]

It convert from 1.5 to 0.6 and stop, I didnt add anything or do anything it Just stopped for a week, now iam hoping that until tuesday that 0.2ppm would dissapear or i háve to change half water or something again.. that why I asked if iam doing something wrong or whats happening

The only method I can see of ammonia reduction ceasing is if it is consumed by heterotrophic bacteria that have become carbon limited. You probably need to add true nitrifyers.

 

[Bruttall]

But you transferred rock from your previous setup, that's cheating, lol.

Where did the "live" portion of the sand come from?

WOW, you really trying hard to add things to what I said, you practicing politics?

My 300g was already CYCLED when all the stuff from my 75g got added to it. If you had checked my Build Thread, as I suggested, you would have known this without me having to explain it again. But I'll go over it again, between 4-10 and 4-18 I added water to my tank, on 4-22 I migrated everything into the tank because it was cycled. Demonstrating a max of 12 days, the 10th to the 22nd for a Nitritfication Cycle to establish itself. I did not do anyting different than 95% of those setting up new tanks, asking for help on these forums, except I already knew going into this that bottled bac was as likely to be snake oil. Blame the couple of decades of keeping freshwater fish for that I guess. Not to mention in a Hobby where the first thing you learn is NOTHING HAPPENS FAST, LEARN PATIENCE. Why would want to rush a process all your Live Stock will depend on to remain living? All those bottled bac's do nothing for me that nature can't do better.

The Livesand came from the same place you would buy livesand. LFS in a plastic bag, hence the (Caribsea Aragonite Livesand) name of the exact product I used!!@! It comes in 20lb and 40lb bags.

 

[Bruttall]

If you try to actually measure rates of nitrification for various products, you come to a different conclusion..




Some are fast, some are slow, and some are not appropriate at all for ammonia-only "fishless" cycling.
And my tank water by itself goes months before it starts to show nitrifying activity on ammonia.

Well, if you fill a tank with water and do nothing else it will never develop the bacteria ya need. You could wait years and with nothing to decay the bacteria will never develop. Next time after ya fill the tank, toss in a cube of frozen for every 50g water, wait 7 days and start testing for nitrates, tell us what happened!!

 

[Garf]

WOW, you really trying hard to add things to what I said, you practicing politics?

My 300g was already CYCLED when all the stuff from my 75g got added to it. If you had checked my Build Thread, as I suggested, you would have known this without me having to explain it again. But I'll go over it again, between 4-10 and 4-18 I added water to my tank, on 4-22 I migrated everything into the tank because it was cycled. Demonstrating a max of 12 days, the 10th to the 22nd for a Nitritfication Cycle to establish itself. I did not do anyting different than 95% of those setting up new tanks, asking for help on these forums, except I already knew going into this that bottled bac was as likely to be snake oil. Blame the couple of decades of keeping freshwater fish for that I guess. Not to mention in a Hobby where the first thing you learn is NOTHING HAPPENS FAST, LEARN PATIENCE. Why would want to rush a process all your Live Stock will depend on to remain living? All those bottled bac's do nothing for me that nature can't do better.

The Livesand came from the same place you would buy livesand. LFS in a plastic bag, hence the (Caribsea Aragonite Livesand) name of the exact product I used!!@! It comes in 20lb and 40lb bags.

Ok, to be picky your thread didn't mention anything about a cycle, just that you put water in on 10th April, then said migration was complete on the 23rd April, should I post links? Evidence for your claim is non existent. No cycle info, no bioload, no claim.

 

[taricha]

Next time after ya fill the tank, toss in a cube of frozen for every 50g water, wait 7 days and start testing for nitrates, tell us what happened!!

I agree that throwing in fish food really increases the possibilities for nutrient processing vs just ammonia drops.

 

[LongbowLw]

The aquarium is unlikely to have a strong population of nitrifying bacteria. Your measurements prove there is likely the presence of o very weak population of bacteria. Be careful about sticking fish and invertebrates too quickly. They could overwhelm the bacteria and result in an undesreable ammonia level.

I suspect the bottled bacteria you used was not the correct type or was very slow to start. There is always a possibility that the product was inactive and the meager activity seen, little or no ammonia reduction and very little nitrite production, were the bacteria introduced from the air.

Good luck!

Yea i agree, gona pour some other bacterias here and gona turn my cycle from fishless to fish included, will see how it goes, also I read about that bacterias and ppl have good results even in saltwater, so idk what should cause this, but its very strange, I also measured pH,po4,kh everyting is in order so, also I put carbon sock today to filtration, will see these days if something change or what... maybe fish would start that cycle better or something, my only concern is that didnt want to kill them right away

 

[Garf]

Yea i agree, gona pour some other bacterias here and gona turn my cycle from fishless to fish included, will see how it goes, also I read about that bacterias and ppl have good results even in saltwater, so idk what should cause this, but its very strange, I also measured pH,po4,kh everyting is in order so, also I put carbon sock today to filtration, will see these days if something change or what... maybe fish would start that cycle better or something, my only hore is that didnt want to kill them right away

Are you able to change out the water first?

 

[LongbowLw]

Are you able to change out the water first?

Yea gona do that for sure, I did 80% yesterday and gona wait till tommorow if ammonia drop, if not ,gona change again probably whole water

 

[PotatoPig]

I feel most people "Way Overthink" this cycling thing.

Agree 100000%

IMO: Part of this is there’s something like 4 main ways to cycle a tank and some experienced folks have very strong and conflicting opinions that they they debate in front of an audience consisting almost entirely of total beginners, who take away from it that this is an ultra important and highly specific thing to do exactly right.

I’m not entirely sure how we got to this point as all these methods work. I suspect this is partly a bleed over from Freshwater where the products of ammonia metabolism are also highly toxic, tanks stocked much more heavily, and beginner tanks are much smaller.

But due to the much lighter stocking in reef tanks (result of combination of fish demands and aggression control) and the much larger size of our tanks at the beginner level I’m not sure you could kill a fish though failure to cycle as long as you start slow (eg 2 clowns) and have vaguely appropriate levels of rock and flow.

Adding: I suspect another part is the fish in these tanks are often not particularly hardy and so if a beginner doesn’t know what they’re doing there’s not much of a learning curve before you see fish die, likely from disease, aggression, lack of appropriate food, or stress, and then during diagnosis an incomplete cycle is almost always raised as a possibility even when it’s virtually impossible for the circumstances, further reinforcing for beginners that this is an ultra sensitive and difficult step.

Anyway, my 2c.

 

[Bruttall]

Ok, to be picky your thread didn't mention anything about a cycle, just that you put water in on 10th April, then said migration was complete on the 23rd April, should I post links? Evidence for your claim is non existent. No cycle info, no bioload, no claim.

say again? On the 18th I said... well I'll let you read it, then on the 22nd I migrated everything. But you keep on seeing only what you want to see. Or maybe "Water parameters to stabilize" means something different to you?

 

[Garf]

say again? On the 18th I said... well I'll let you read it, then on the 22nd I migrated everything. But you keep on seeing only what you want to see. Or maybe "Water parameters to stabilize" means something different to you?

It's of no matter. Perhaps you should start a thread about a ten day full cycle using ghost feeding alone.

 

[LongbowLw]

so i measured at morning still got 0,2 ppm ammonia, so i dump all water and add new one, also i bough dr.tim 30 day for marine cycle, it says that you can add fish and coral second day, so thats my plan, gona wait till fish and coral come its gona be tuesday probably and gona try that way, will keep you updated if everything goes okey ... again thank you all

Agree 100000%

IMO: Part of this is there’s something like 4 main ways to cycle a tank and some experienced folks have very strong and conflicting opinions that they they debate in front of an audience consisting almost entirely of total beginners, who take away from it that this is an ultra important and highly specific thing to do exactly right.

I’m not entirely sure how we got to this point as all these methods work. I suspect this is partly a bleed over from Freshwater where the products of ammonia metabolism are also highly toxic, tanks stocked much more heavily, and beginner tanks are much smaller.

But due to the much lighter stocking in reef tanks (result of combination of fish demands and aggression control) and the much larger size of our tanks at the beginner level I’m not sure you could kill a fish though failure to cycle as long as you start slow (eg 2 clowns) and have vaguely appropriate levels of rock and flow.

Adding: I suspect another part is the fish in these tanks are often not particularly hardy and so if a beginner doesn’t know what they’re doing there’s not much of a learning curve before you see fish die, likely from disease, aggression, lack of appropriate food, or stress, and then during diagnosis an incomplete cycle is almost always raised as a possibility even when it’s virtually impossible for the circumstances, further reinforcing for beginners that this is an ultra sensitive and difficult step.

Anyway, my 2c.

interesting point, yea probably i overcomplicate everything and its gona be fine