Cycling help please

[dwdoworkdw]

Started a 40g breeder with 25g sump. The main display houses all my dry rock and substrate. The sump has a 3-4 pound rock and bio media from an established tank. My lfs suggested using seachem seed. I added as labeled and added a few fish pellets as well. I started testing amonia on day 3 and was reading about 5ppm (api test kit) days 5-6 ammonia was reading about the same but I also tested nitrites and they were at 0. I tested nitrate as well and they’re about 20ppm. So long story short I am 8 days into cycle and my readings are 6-8ppm ammonia, 0 nitrate, 10-20ppm nitrate. I’ve never cycled like this before and curious to where people think I am on my cycle. Should I do a water change to see if it drops the ammonia some? Did my nitrites convert to nitrates without me noticing and amonia doesn’t seem to be coming down at all. Also, I mixed my own salt and make my own rodi water testing at 0tds P.S I also have seachem stability because I don’t know much about seachem seed

 

[lmfbs]

That's quite high for ammonia, generally you'd want to hit 2ppm. Personally, I'd just wait it out until it gets to zero, then add ammonia up to 2ppm, and once it can process that in 24hrs, you're fine.

I don't really ever bother with nitrite testing myself - generally if you're seeing 0 ammonia and some nitrate, you're golden. It's worth noting that many nitrate tests don't read 'true' in the presence of nitrite. I suspect your nitrate is actually very low, but your nitrite is higher than you're testing (but probably still low) .

 

[Dan_P]

Started a 40g breeder with 25g sump. The main display houses all my dry rock and substrate. The sump has a 3-4 pound rock and bio media from an established tank. My lfs suggested using seachem seed. I added as labeled and added a few fish pellets as well. I started testing amonia on day 3 and was reading about 5ppm (api test kit) days 5-6 ammonia was reading about the same but I also tested nitrites and they were at 0. I tested nitrate as well and they’re about 20ppm. So long story short I am 8 days into cycle and my readings are 6-8ppm ammonia, 0 nitrate, 10-20ppm nitrate. I’ve never cycled like this before and curious to where people think I am on my cycle. Should I do a water change to see if it drops the ammonia some? Did my nitrites convert to nitrates without me noticing and amonia doesn’t seem to be coming down at all. Also, I mixed my own salt and make my own rodi water testing at 0tds P.S I also have seachem stability because I don’t know much about seachem seed

This seems to be a bit off the beaten path cycling process. Here are thoughts and questions.

Where did the high ammonia come from?

The high ammonia, high nitrate but no nitrite does not make sense.

Unless the Seachem product specifically says that it contains nitrifying bacteria, I would stop adding anything until you sort out what is happening.

API tests are rough and ready tests. They work most of the time. Test some new saltwater for ammonia and nitrate. They should both read zero or near zero. If not the tests are giving you misleading results.

 

[dwdoworkdw]

This seems to be a bit off the beaten path cycling process. Here are thoughts and questions.

Where did the high ammonia come from?

The high ammonia, high nitrate but no nitrite does not make sense.

Unless the Seachem product specifically says that it contains nitrifying bacteria, I would stop adding anything until you sort out what is happening.

API tests are rough and ready tests. They work most of the time. Test some new saltwater for ammonia and nitrate. They should both read zero or near zero. If not the tests are giving you misleading results.

That’s where I got confused. When I tested and ammonia was that high already with no nitrite and some nitrates. Unless I missed the nitrites? But why would the ammonia still be that high. I used the ammonia test on my nano and it reads 0 so I know the test is good. Well close to 0 as api gets. I need to test all three again and I’ll post pictures

 

[Dan_P]

That’s where I got confused. When I tested and ammonia was that high already with no nitrite and some nitrates. Unless I missed the nitrites? But why would the ammonia still be that high. I used the ammonia test on my nano and it reads 0 so I know the test is good. Well close to 0 as api gets. I need to test all three again and I’ll post pictures

If all you added was some fish pellets, I would expect ammonia to be near zero. I wonder if something is wrong with the material in the sump?

 

[dwdoworkdw]

If all you added was some fish pellets, I would expect ammonia to be near zero. I wonder if something is wrong with the material in the sump?

Sump has murine pure from 3 year old nano and a good sized live rock from the nano. Along with the new bio blocks I added. Other than that just filter floss and filter for return pump. Salinity 1.26 temp about 79.4 I only ghost fed one day because I knew the established media and rock I added would be enough for the ammonia

 

[Dan_P]

Sump has murine pure from 3 year old nano and a good sized live rock from the nano. Along with the new bio blocks I added. Other than that just filter floss and filter for return pump. Salinity 1.26 temp about 79.4 I only ghost fed one day because I knew the established media and rock I added would be enough for the ammonia

I wonder if something in the murine pure or live rock died. Nothing else comes to mind that would jack up the ammonia so high.

 

[dwdoworkdw]

I wonder if something in the murine pure or live rock died. Nothing else comes to mind that would jack up the ammonia so high.

I’m actually testing now. I haven’t tested nitrites in days and I’m now reading some

 

[dwdoworkdw]

I wonder if something in the murine pure or live rock died. Nothing else comes to mind that would jack up the ammonia so high.

Says the nitrate image is to big lol but it’s around 40ppm and I say ammonia is between 2-4 not as bad as I thought

 

[Dan_P]

Says the nitrate image is to big lol but it’s around 40ppm and I say ammonia is between 2-4 not as bad as I thought

Those are nifty mixing vials, much better than the standard 5 mL glass test tubes.

 

[dwdoworkdw]

Those are nifty mixing vials, much better than the standard 5 mL glass test tubes.

Broke them all and I haven’t had to test in years so that’s all I had. Are those more normal reasonable numbers?

 

[Dan_P]

Broke them all and I haven’t had to test in years so that’s all I had. Are those more normal reasonable numbers?

I don't understand why there is any ammonia reading and the nitrate still seems too high. I am wondering whether the material in the sump is the cause of both readings.

 

[dwdoworkdw]

I don't understand why there is any ammonia reading and the nitrate still seems too high. I am wondering whether the material in the sump is the cause of both readings.

Well isn’t it suppose to spike like that initially? Or no because the bacteria I added with the rock

 

[taricha]

the fact that you are now producing nitrite when previously there was none is the clearest evidence that ammonia oxidation is actually occuring. So things are moving in the right direction.
Don't know what your high ammonia source is. Some bottle bacteria have high nitrate in them as a result of the culturing process.

 

[dwdoworkdw]

the fact that you are now producing nitrite when previously there was none is the clearest evidence that ammonia oxidation is actually occuring. So things are moving in the right direction.
Don't know what your high ammonia source is. Some bottle bacteria have high nitrate in them as a result of the culturing process.

Seachem seed and a couple fish pellets ‍ so idk. I mean the rock and sand came from a friends old tank. The rock was sitting for 8-10 years in his garage. I did clean it all really good though. Maybe the bio media. Thought about taking it out but idk if I should just let it ride its course

 

[lmfbs]

Seachem seed and a couple fish pellets ‍ so idk. I mean the rock and sand came from a friends old tank. The rock was sitting for 8-10 years in his garage. I did clean it all really good though. Maybe the bio media. Thought about taking it out but idk if I should just let it ride its course

I'll bet you anything there's decaying material in the rock that's breaking down. Honestly, I wouldn't sweat it too much. Stop feeding the tank, there's clearly ammonia in there. Ignore it for a week, then test and let us know what's happening

It's basically impossible to break a cycle, so I'm 100% sure you'll be fine with time and patience.

 

[907_Reefer]

I mean the rock and sand came from a friends old tank.

What's the details on the used sand - potentially full of detritus or cleaned?

 

[Dan_P]

Well isn’t it suppose to spike like that initially? Or no because the bacteria I added with the rock

No. If you don’t add ammonia, it is unlikely that you would detect so much. The detection of nitrite as already observed is a sign that the ammonia, where ever it is coming from, is being consumed.

By the way, what is the pile of white stuff in the sump?

Good luck!

 

[taricha]

I mean the rock and sand came from a friends old tank. The rock was sitting for 8-10 years in his garage.

I once used years dead white Coral skeletons as a substrate for coralline algae. I assumed they would be pretty much blank, but in reality they had left over organic material that decayed and pushed my ammonia much higher than I was targeting in my small containers, maxing out my ammonia test.
So yes, I totally would believe that years dead rock from the garage could have plenty of organic material to generate those ammonia levels.

 

[NanoNana]

I have learned from my cycle that I would not jump on a chance to use dead rock again and if I must, I’ll bleach it or cook it in a can for months prior to use. I know a lot of people do it successfully but it’s been a headache for me.