Cycle a tank - Whats happening?

[LongbowLw]

Hello fellow reefers, iam new at this hobby and from the start things going pretty interesting. I started my 30 gallon aquarium a month and a week ago, still isnt cycled. Things that are happening are these: When i started i decided to do shrimp method so u put 2 small shrimps in my tank and microlift special blend bacteria, i measured after 3 days ammonia and it was 0,2 ppm, i was thinking maybe these shrimps are small also they was coctail shrimp so i decided to change them for 2 bigger fresh shrimps. Next day at morning i measured 3+ppm ammonia, i was like nice the cycle can start, i putted the shrimps away and wait. After next week i started to add Microlift Nite Out(supposed to be starting bacteria) and also did Gel filter on my ceramic filter(was thinking that it might help the cycle). After 2 weeks ammonia didnt move a bit and NO2 was at 0,1 ppm NO3 0ppm.
So i started to think, maybe the ammonia is too high , i decided to change half of water. Ammonia than was like 1,5ppm. So i waited next week it drops to 0,6 ppm. i waited next week and it was still at 0,6ppm 0,1ppm NO2 and 2ppm NO3. So again i decided to put little bit of shrimp inside and now my ammonia is between 1,5ppm - 3 ppm(the test got this wierd scale so) . Again after 1 week didnt move a bit, got ammonia 1,5ppm - 3 ppm, 0,2 pp NO2, 3 ppm NO3.(Edit: iam still adding the nite out bacteria it says should be added every day until there is 0ppm of ammonia) What am i doing wrong? I was guessing that cycle should be finished by now, but that measurements are so low and iam lost in it tbh. For aquascape i used dry rock and dry sand. In filtration i got 2 sponges, 1 ceramic filter(also i was thinking that it should help bacteria to got place to live).Got 2 pumps there 1 wave pump and 1 from filtration.(Filtration is inside the tank, doesnt have a sump) Temperature 78-79 F , Ph 8,5, Salinity 1,025. Can someone give me advice what should i improve or do to do that cycle properly? I think i wait so long and it starting to be little bit frustrating. (Also iam from slovakia so sorry for a bad language )

 

[Dbichler]

You’ve been cycled for a while already. You didnt need to add any more ammonia or shrimp to keep producing ammonia. You should do a water change and add 1 or 2 fish.

 

[Bruttall]

Easy Peasy Nitrification Starter for Beginners.

Steps are as follows, I will keep this really simple.
1. add water to your tank
2. add flake fish food/frozen food etc (I like frozen cubes myself, for my 300g I added 5 cubes.)
3. wait 7 days test for Nitrates, test every other day till you get Positive Readings.
4. once Nitrates show up on your tests, 30% water change and add fish.

This whole process, without ANY ADDITIVES AT ALL should not take more than 10 days total. The only reason to test for Ammonia or Nitrites during this process is to check your progress along the cycle. For myself, Ammonia is one test I do not own. If there are Nitrates present in my water, there will not be any Ammonia to worry about, the Nitrifying bacteria is eating it and converting it to Nitrites which yet another type of bacteria will convert to Nitrates.

I know, people like Dr Tim have made a fortune selling you Nitrifying bacteria in a bottle, Snake Oil IMO. A totally unnecessary expense. Which also makes me wonder, how did people keep fish in glass houses before all the Chemical "helpers" ??

 

[tzabor10]

Adding live rock did it for my tank. Dry takes so long

 

[WalkerLoves_TheOcean]

Yes, I agree with the above.

Live rock will help you tremendously, and it will help to keep ammonia down when you add fish.

 

[Cell]

Easy Peasy Nitrification Starter for Beginners.

Steps are as follows, I will keep this really simple.
1. add water to your tank
2. add flake fish food/frozen food etc (I like frozen cubes myself, for my 300g I added 5 cubes.)
3. wait 7 days test for Nitrates, test every other day till you get Positive Readings.
4. once Nitrates show up on your tests, 30% water change and add fish.

This whole process, without ANY ADDITIVES AT ALL should not take more than 10 days total. The only reason to test for Ammonia or Nitrites during this process is to check your progress along the cycle. For myself, Ammonia is one test I do not own. If there are Nitrates present in my water, there will not be any Ammonia to worry about, the Nitrifying bacteria is eating it and converting it to Nitrites which yet another type of bacteria will convert to Nitrates.

I know, people like Dr Tim have made a fortune selling you Nitrifying bacteria in a bottle, Snake Oil IMO. A totally unnecessary expense. Which also makes me wonder, how did people keep fish in glass houses before all the Chemical "helpers" ??

10 days traditional cycle with just ammonia source and no starter bac? No way. And starter bac is not snake oil. Stop spreading falsehoods.

 

[Paul B]

I feel most people "Way Overthink" this cycling thing. You don't need any of that stuff except the dead shrimp. (and some live rock, whatever you can afford) Put in enough so the water turns cloudy in a few days. When it clears, do it again, and forget about it, you are done and can add 1 small fish and maybe a small crab.

The tank is still not what most people will call cycled but the truth is a tank is never cycled. It continually cycles, which means bacteria grow and die depending on how much life you have and how much you feed. My tank is over 50 years old and if I add a fish, more bacteria will grow to process it.

The bad news is a new tank, no matter who starts it, will have problems for a while.
There are many types of bacteria, viruses and funguses competing for space and food and they will all "annoy" each other until they find their place which may take a year or two.

By the way, your English is better than mine and I was born in Brooklyn New York.

 

[LongbowLw]

You’ve been cycled for a while already. You didnt need to add any more ammonia or shrimp to keep producing ammonia. You should do a water change and add 1 or 2 fish.

but i never get 0 ammonia and 0 NO2, thats what concerning me, also i read that when you put some amonia in, it should be gone next day, for 1 week i got amonia(without shrimp) between 1,5ppm-3ppm which is high. Also most people said that NO3 should be after cycle high, mine is on 2PPM which is really low so i dont think the cycle is completed thats why i rather ask, didnt wanna put fish or coral to danger for nothing
(edit: also before when i got 0,6 ppm of ammonia still toxic for fish wouldnt go down after a week)

 

[LongbowLw]

Adding live rock did it for my tank. Dry takes so long

yea read that too, but in our country is bit a problem to get live rock

 

[exnisstech]

I tend to agree with some of the above posts. I have used bottled bacteria but I do not use all the other stuff they tell you is needed. For years I just used plain house hold ammonia with no additives. It worked perfectly fine. Now I ghost feed as @Bruttall suggested. I also do not own a ammonia or nitrite test kit. Once I see nitrates I start to slowly add live stock.
I'm setting up a new system now about 285 gallons total. I filled the tank on 2/12 and on 2/21 NO3 was 3.7 no bottled bacteria and no ammonia added. IMO if you have access to real live rock it is the absolute best way to cycle a tank. This is the what I placed in the sump of the new tank.

But not everyone has access to live rock and so many people are afraid of pests these days so the product vendors make their money and the process becomes slow, tedious and discouraging for new reefers.

 

[Paul B]

yea read that too, but in our country is bit a problem to get live rock

Yes, I know. Go outside and get any rock and put it in your tank. I started mine with some garden rocks and soil.

 

[LongbowLw]

Yes, I know. Go outside and get any rock and put it in your tank. I started mine with some garden rocks and soil.

never heard about something like that .. well my plan is to wait one more week and see if that ammonia goes down or what and probably, change a water until the amonia and NO2 levels would be low and bring fish, i dont know what else should i do....

 

[Paul B]

never heard about something like that

And you never will again. But thats what we did when this hobby started and many of those tanks are probably still running. Remember, at the bottom of the sea, is soil. (OK sand) But the sea laps up against garden soil. We need to get out of this thinking that we need to buy something to help our tanks when much of this stuff is all around us for free. Many of us buy bottled drinking water when for the most part water is free.

 

[taricha]

Not all bottled bacteria are fast. Some bottled bacteria products can show nothing for weeks.
Some are very fast, and show ammonia being oxidized to nitrite overnight.
I'd give another product a chance. I don't know if people have fast experiences with nite-out or not.

 

[Bruttall]

Not all bottled bacteria are fast. Some bottled bacteria products can show nothing for weeks.
Some are very fast, and show ammonia being oxidized to nitrite overnight.
I'd give another product a chance. I don't know if people have fast experiences with nite-out or not.

The reason some Bottled Bacteria show no results for weeks is because it was saline water. aka SNAKE OIL! Buyers beware there are TONS of Fake Products to help you do anything you want with an aquarium, but most of those "sus products" seem to revolve around Bacteria to start a tank, most claim you need to give their product 7 to 10 days to work, which is the EXACT time needed if you use Fish Food, frozen or flake, to start your cycle naturally. Coincidence? Ya I doubt it.

Personally I try to abstain from buying anything that has the words "proprietary Ingredients" without an actual list of whats in it. Start reading the labels on that Bacteria.

 

[Bruttall]

10 days traditional cycle with just ammonia source and no starter bac? No way. And starter bac is not snake oil. Stop spreading falsehoods.

All I am doing is posting my personal experience with cycling tanks for the last couple decades. Check my build thread, 300g display, All Natural Cycle started with frozen cubes of food. and yes 10 days without any Bottled Bacteria is average to cycle a tank and start the Nitrification Bacteria cycle. If you go and look at the second page of my build thread, you will see that between 4-10-2023 and 4-18-2023 I filled my 300g with water and on 4-22-2023 I posted my Migration from 75g to 300g was complete. 4-10 to 4-22 is 12 days. 5-2-2023 I posted pics of coral in my tank. Love this forum because of the dates on your posts. Makes it really easy to demonstrate my process for the doubters who wanna buy chemicals.

You might also note that i did not use any Live Rock, I bought all dry/dead marco rock. But I did use Caribsea Aragonite Live Sand, About 280lbs of it.

 

[brandon429]

Here is why no cycles are stalled at one month, a direct work thread on the matter below.

Build Thread - My SPS Waterbox Peninsula Mini 15

Hi all. Long time member (I think I joined right around when R2R started or took off years ago) but got out of the hobby for about 6 years and now I am back! I don't see many build threads for the PM 15 (mostly the 25) so thought I'd share my journey here. This post will be a bit behind...

www.reef2reef.com

Bottle bac wasn’t even used there and it was ready in one month, the point being where bottle bac is added, the cycle goes faster even if it’s not a particularly strong blend.

Who says we accept these test kit levels as accurate?

The doubt in this thread comes solely from cheap test kit readings, not failure to be able to reef after a clean start.


In two seconds flat we can find this brand test kit used here misreading in half a million search returns, that doesn’t make the kits all of a sudden reliable here and a stuck cycle. Post #2 is correct

Change all the wastewater for new, quit testing using misreading brand kits, and choose a fish disease plan before making use of the ready tank. You don’t have to test for cycle ability using any kit, you’re at one month and there’s a full blown reef example above we did the right way, with no testing to cause misread time loss.

Your cycle isn’t the problem, it’s that when you add unprepped fish, losses will begin usually before month eight and you’ll be where posts in the disease forum are today, a cycled reef that won’t carry fish without losses. Disease plan is what needed 30 days of study and detail prepping.

 

[LongbowLw]

i didnt want to start war here like bacteria vs no bacterias.... like i say iam brand new on this hobby so as in every hobby there is so much information and everyone have different experience... My personal goal is not to "be cycled as fast as possible", atleast iam patient person(but yea kinda frustrating that my tank is empty after month and 1 week), my concern is only that i dont want to kill lifestock in my tank because i missread or do something stupid, but back to topic, so most of you suggest i should dump the water, fill it up and everything should be ok, because the tank is working some days and have some bacteria in it right? i wanted to wait 1 more week and do that, gona look for some clown fish and bring it to tank, maybe some soft coral.Wanted to start small and slow... thanks for every suggestion, i mean it... like i said its pretty hard to do this hobby thats why it caugh my interest in the first place

 

[LongbowLw]

and also, can i add some new dry rock and respace it little bit? or shouldnt do it rather, any suggestion on that?

 

[brandon429]

It’s ok to add since the rest of the tank is ready. The extra doesn’t need to cycle it can take on bac later. No war at all, cycling challenges are fun to work and everyone has their favorite way