Why does nitrite block the cycle every time I start a new tank?

[BilboB]

I’ve tried both Dr. Tim’s and Fritz Turbostart multiple times - every time the cycle stalls as the nitrite levels get too high, and I wind up having to do multiple water changes. Does this happen to others frequently? Why don’t these products increase the ratio of nitrite-utilizing bacteria to ammonia-utilizing bacteria so the nitrite levels don’t get out of hand?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

What does it mean to you that nitrite gets too high?

The easy answer is stop measuring it. It is not toxic in marine systems and need not be driven down before adding fish. A few ppm nitrite is not a problem for fish.

As long as ammonia is processed, you are good to go!

 

[exnisstech]

Well you could try what I do though it isn't a recommended method by most. I don't own a nitrite or ammonia test kit. I know about nitrite causing false nitrate readings but I ignore that. When I see nitrate I figure ammonia is being processed and I slowly move forward. I have never experienced a stalled cycle and I've never had a problem doing it this way with numerous tanks started.

 

[BilboB]

What does it mean to you that nitrite gets too high?

The easy answer is stop measuring it. It is not toxic in marine systems and need not be driven down before adding fish. A few ppm nitrite is not a problem for fish.

As long as ammonia is processed, you are good to go!

The instructions say not to add fish until the nitrites are gone. And from what I've read, if they get too high, the nitrite-utilizing bacteria are suppressed so the nitrites don't decrease.

 

[Euphyllia098]

I agree with Randy. I had this "problem" when I first got into the hobby. Based on advice from others I ignored it and added fish. I had no issues. Just go slow, aka only add a few fish to start.

 

[Fish Fan]

The instructions say not to add fish until the nitrites are gone. And from what I've read, if they get too high, the nitrite-utilizing bacteria are suppressed so the nitrites don't decrease.

That's old news based on freshwater aquarium keeping where nitrite IS toxic, but in marine systems it's not toxic in any level that you can actually reach. Listen to Randy Holmes-Farley here

You can safely disregard testing for nitrite; here's Randy's article on why:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/rhf/index.htm

I hope this helps!

 

[BilboB]

That's old news based on freshwater aquarium keeping where nitrite IS toxic, but in marine systems it's not toxic in any level that you can actually reach. Listen to Randy Holmes-Farley here

You can safely disregard testing for nitrite; here's Randy's article on why:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/rhf/index.htm

Great, thanks!

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

maybe you can give more details, or add some numbers, its hard to understand why nitrite would get too high and stall. How high does it get, how long does it stall?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

The instructions say not to add fish until the nitrites are gone. And from what I've read, if they get too high, the nitrite-utilizing bacteria are suppressed so the nitrites don't decrease.

Ignore those instructions. The concern about nitrite is a false carry over from freshwater situations.

 

[Subsea]

I’ve tried both Dr. Tim’s and Fritz Turbostart multiple times - every time the cycle stalls as the nitrite levels get too high, and I wind up having to do multiple water changes. Does this happen to others frequently? Why don’t these products increase the ratio of nitrite-utilizing bacteria to ammonia-utilizing bacteria so the nitrite levels don’t get out of hand?

I don’t measure nitrite and have never used bacteria in a bottle. I prefer using diver collected live rock or live rock from an established tank.

“every time the cycle stalls as the nitrite levels get too high, and I wind up having to do multiple water changes. Does this happen to others frequently?“

Nothing is stalling your cycle but you. Consider old school and throw in a shrimp and remove it in 2 weeks. No need to test.

Or get diver collected live rock & live sand.

 

[oakcityreefer]

Dr Tim’s says that the nitrite processing bacteria are slower at reproducing than the ammonia processing bacteria. So they lag behind. Your options are

1. Ignore it like many here recommend myself included
2. Power through by adding more bacteria.
3. Just wait and they will eventually catch up.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Dr Tim’s says that the nitrite processing bacteria are slower at reproducing than the ammonia processing bacteria. So they lag behind.

They are. Folks tracking nitrite often find it slower.

 

[BilboB]

maybe you can give more details, or add some numbers, its hard to understand why nitrite would get too high and stall. How high does it get, how long does it stall?

The first time, I waited 5 days but the nitrite levels were still over 5 ppm according to the API kit. Then a Google search told me "High nitrite levels (often above 5 ppm to 10 ppm) can overwhelm and inhibit the bacteria that process them (Nitrospira or similar nitrite-oxidizing bacteria)." I had to do big water changes on successive days to get the level under 5 ppm, and then it starting going down on its own. For subsequent tanks, I wait only 2 days with nitrite over 5 ppm to do the water changes.

However, I'm taking Randy's advice and leaving the latest tank alone with nitrite over 5 ppm. This tank is meant to be my QT and I currently don't have any fish needing medication, so there's no rush. I just hope that, if the nitrite level is still over 5 ppm when I do need the tank, the ammonia-utilizing bacteria are not suppressed.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Did you find ammonia consumption is slow?

I assumed you meant nitrite consumption was stalling, not the ammonium consumption.

 

[BilboB]

Did you find ammonia consumption is slow?

I assumed you meant nitrite consumption was stalling, not the ammonium consumption.

The ammonia level is currently low, but it's hard to know if the ammonia-utilizing are being suppressed since the ammmonia levels dropped before the nitrite levels rose. I saw a video that says that high nitrite suppresses the ammonia-utilizing bacteria (at ~2:40):


FEMS Microbiol Lett. 2011 Jun;319(2):169-75 says that "Nitrite (20 mM) significantly reduced the mRNA levels of amoA (ammonia monooxygenase) in N. multiformis" although I think 20 mM is way higher than 5 ppm. There might be more data out there but I haven't searched yet.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

If you are concerned about the rate of ammonia drop, I’d test it. Add 2 ppm ammonia and see how fast it declines to 0.5 ppm or less (the cut off where some kits can show ammonia when none is there). Trying to predict it from a nitrite level is just not useful.

What in this qt tank is housing bacteria? Can you just put it j to your display?

 

[Fish Fan]

The ammonia level is currently low, but it's hard to know if the ammonia-utilizing are being suppressed since the ammmonia levels dropped before the nitrite levels rose. I saw a video that says that high nitrite suppresses the ammonia-utilizing bacteria (at ~2:40):


FEMS Microbiol Lett. 2011 Jun;319(2):169-75 says that "Nitrite (20 mM) significantly reduced the mRNA levels of amoA (ammonia monooxygenase) in N. multiformis" although I think 20 mM is way higher than 5 ppm. There might be more data out there but I haven't searched yet.

Save yourself some headaches, and toss the nitrite test kit in the trash bin

I've seen probably hundreds of "help me cycle my tank" threads, and there's never been a credible instance of nitrite suppressing the ammonia oxidisers.

The amount of nitrite present is going to correspond to the amount of ammonia you added, so if you didn't grossly overdose the ammonia, you're not going to have too high nitrite.

I would do as Randy suggested above, dose the ammonia to about 2.0 ppm and test the ammonia again in 24 hours. If after 24 hours your ammonia is under about 0.50 ppm, consider your tank cycled

Good luck!

 

[BilboB]

If you are concerned about the rate of ammonia drop, I’d test it. Add 2 ppm ammonia and see how fast it declines to 0.5 ppm or less (the cut off where some kits can show ammonia when none is there). Trying to predict it from a nitrite level is just not useful.

What in this qt tank is housing bacteria? Can you just put it j to your display?

OK, will do. I have about 15 MarinePure ceramic balls in the bottom of the QT, which will eventually be used to medicate fish - I've lost a lot of fish over the last 6 months due to parasites & bacterial infections.

 

[BilboB]

I've seen probably hundreds of "help me cycle my tank" threads, and there's never been a credible instance of nitrite suppressing the ammonia oxidisers.

Great! I'll add more ammonium chloride and follow the ammonia levels.

 

[Fish Fan]

Great! I'll add more ammonium chloride and follow the ammonia levels.

Sounds good, let us know what the ammonia concntration is after about 24 hours