Turf algae and low nutrients

[ReefSlice]

I've been fighting zero nutrients in my 40 breeder since it was set up a year ago by dosing po4 daily and no3 weekly. I still can't keep sps and have pale corals from time to time because it's very hard to keep nutrients up regardless of how much I feed. However, in the last 3 months I've begun to get what I believe to be turf algae all over my sandbed and increasingly on my rocks, making matters worse. How do I get rid of this stuff so I can at least get an accurate reading of my nutrients and try to keep my corals fed while I look for more fish? It grows back very quickly along the sand even with siphoning it out every water change.

 

[billwill]

I don't think that's turf algae. Looks way too soft and fluffy, and it's in the sand. Turf algae, ime, was like a coarse beard that was very difficult to pull off. I'd check your test kits and stop dosing the nutrients for a while unless you're purposing running equipment/dosing to make a ULNS. 1 year is still relatively new for a reef, so I'd say it's still maturing. Do you have fish?

 

[sixty_reefer]

I've been fighting zero nutrients in my 40 breeder since it was set up a year ago by dosing po4 daily and no3 weekly. I still can't keep sps and have pale corals from time to time because it's very hard to keep nutrients up regardless of how much I feed. However, in the last 3 months I've begun to get what I believe to be turf algae all over my sandbed and increasingly on my rocks, making matters worse. How do I get rid of this stuff so I can at least get an accurate reading of my nutrients and try to keep my corals fed while I look for more fish? It grows back very quickly along the sand even with siphoning it out every water change.

Could you tell us what other products are you adding to the system and what type of food you are giving your fish?

 

[ReefSlice]

I don't think that's turf algae. Looks way too soft and fluffy, and it's in the sand. Turf algae, ime, was like a coarse beard that was very difficult to pull off. I'd check your test kits and stop dosing the nutrients for a while unless you're purposing running equipment/dosing to make a ULNS. 1 year is still relatively new for a reef, so I'd say it's still maturing. Do you have fish?

It is definitely as you describe, it grows in tufts that are hard to remove and is much harder than normal gha. I'm using hanna readers and icp to test nutrients, and I'm not trying to run a ulns, quite the opposite, I am dosing nutrients daily to keep them from bottoming out and they will hit 0 very quickly if I don't dose, causing coral to bleach and die as well as dinos and all that. I have 3 fish and feed LRS twice a day.

 

[ReefSlice]

Could you tell us what other products are you adding to the system and what type of food you are giving your fish?

Just food (lrs reef frenzy), kalk, neophos and neonitro. I was dosing microbacter clean but stopped months ago, which did nothing to help get nutrients up but the algae did begin to grow once I stopped.

 

[keatonmjenkins]

I honestly think you’re adding to many chemicals. For a 40 breeder, feeding regularly should be enough to keep nutrients up. You’re probably doing more harm by dosing nitrates and phosphates rather than letting your tank bio establish.
If it were me I would stop dosing and let water changes and feeding be the sustainablity of your tank.

 

[bushdoc]

Those algae looks yummy , at least for some creatures.
Do you have any CUC?

 

[sixty_reefer]

Just food (lrs reef frenzy), kalk, neophos and neonitro. I was dosing microbacter clean but stopped months ago, which did nothing to help get nutrients up but the algae did begin to grow once I stopped.

Unfortunately I can’t find much info on the food you using, mb clean has that ability it’s complicated to explain to as mb clean contains dissolved carbon and heterotrophic bacteria it will aid the removal of organic nutrients into bacterial mass and at the same time stimulate the pelagic heterotrophic bacteria at reducing nitrates and some phosphates. The only limitation is that it can’t remove ammonia directly from the water column just the organics before ammonia is released into the water column.
if I was you I would start thinking in methods of competition we have many available and probably try to strengthen your nitrifying bacteria, I don’t see many coral and I could give you some suggestions if you interested in methods of competition.

 

[ReefSlice]

I honestly think you’re adding to many chemicals. For a 40 breeder, feeding regularly should be enough to keep nutrients up. You’re probably doing more harm by dosing nitrates and phosphates rather than letting your tank bio establish.
If it were me I would stop dosing and let water changes and feeding be the sustainablity of your tank.

I always thought that would be the case but it certainly isn't with this tank. I can overfeed the heck out of it and my nutrients will bottom out, causing all my corals to die if I don't dose nutrients. I don't dose anything other than nutrients and kalk, no chemicals at all.

Those algae looks yummy , at least for some creatures.
Do you have any CUC?

I have hundreds of trochus snails, a dozen ceriths and some hermits. They don't touch this stuff at all sadly.

Unfortunately I can’t find much info on the food you using, mb clean has that ability it’s complicated to explain to as mb clean contains dissolved carbon and heterotrophic bacteria it will aid the removal of organic nutrients into bacterial mass and at the same time stimulate the pelagic heterotrophic bacteria at reducing nitrates and some phosphates. The only limitation is that it can’t remove ammonia directly from the water column just the organics before ammonia is released into the water column.
if I was you I would start thinking in methods of competition we have many available and probably try to strengthen your nitrifying bacteria, I don’t see many coral and I could give you some suggestions if you interested in methods of competition.

It is basically just a blend of frozen foods, everything from mysis to oyster and pieces of fish, something for everyone.
I want to stay away from relying on excessive dosing to maintain the tank and keep it simple, I just don't understand why my nutrients are so wonky and now I have algae growing out of nowhere. I have about 20 kinds of zoas and an anacropora. What would you recommend?

 

[bushdoc]

When I look at the pictures of your tank it actually looks fine to me. It is impossible to control every growth in your tank. Many would regard 1 year old tank as just barely redy for serious corals.
There is also bare bottom community, including myself. With bare bottom you can increase the flow and even if you blast everything for just a few minutes a day it can make a difference.
You told us about nutrients, feeding, CUC, but there is also light spectrum and photoperiod, which can be tweaked .
Overall ,I think your tanks looks good and I would just take a deeper breath and keep going slowly in same direction.

 

[ReefSlice]

When I look at the pictures of your tank it actually looks fine to me. It is impossible to control every growth in your tank. Many would regard 1 year old tank as just barely redy for serious corals.
There is also bare bottom community, including myself. With bare bottom you can increase the flow and even if you blast everything for just a few minutes a day it can make a difference.
You told us about nutrients, feeding, CUC, but there is also light spectrum and photoperiod, which can be tweaked .
Overall ,I think your tanks looks good and I would just take a deeper breath and keep going slowly in same direction.

Thanks, I fully understand that there should be some algae, my problem is that this stuff is quickly growing and carpeting parts of the sand and frag plugs on top of pulling my already nearly nonexistent nutrients down. My anacropora that was finally looking decent bleached out and stned at the tips and I had a zoa frag melt because I didn't catch my nutrients bottoming out for a few days. I'd just like for the tank to be more predictable and stable as it's way too much of a balancing act just to try and keep zoanthids colored up! Hopefully as the tank ages a bit more it will start holding onto some nutrients.

 

[Nanoduder]

You think you have Algae problems. This guy is fighting a losing battle

 

[sixty_reefer]

I always thought that would be the case but it certainly isn't with this tank. I can overfeed the heck out of it and my nutrients will bottom out, causing all my corals to die if I don't dose nutrients. I don't dose anything other than nutrients and kalk, no chemicals at all.

I have hundreds of trochus snails, a dozen ceriths and some hermits. They don't touch this stuff at all sadly.

It is basically just a blend of frozen foods, everything from mysis to oyster and pieces of fish, something for everyone.
I want to stay away from relying on excessive dosing to maintain the tank and keep it simple, I just don't understand why my nutrients are so wonky and now I have algae growing out of nowhere. I have about 20 kinds of zoas and an anacropora. What would you recommend?

I’ve asked you about the food as some may contain more carbohydrates that others and promote bacterial growth that way and as a side effect reduce phosphates.
I do recall another aquarists having similar problems to you on the same food, probably worth swapping it for a more bland frozen food for a wile and start the process of elimination on what causing your low nutrient. A food rich in carbohydrates with a low biological load could fit the description.
Another aspect of the nutrient that I would suggest you to do is to double dose your phosphates until they are stable you have two tings going against you at the moment, one is the beneficial bacterial need for phosphates and the other is the aragonite surface need for phosphates to balance, if possible swap neonitro for calcium or sodium nitrate it is thought that neonitro may contain organic forms of nitrogen and ammonia that can be detrimental at this point due to algae being present in the system and aid there growth.

 

[Dan_P]

I've been fighting zero nutrients in my 40 breeder since it was set up a year ago by dosing po4 daily and no3 weekly. I still can't keep sps and have pale corals from time to time because it's very hard to keep nutrients up regardless of how much I feed. However, in the last 3 months I've begun to get what I believe to be turf algae all over my sandbed and increasingly on my rocks, making matters worse. How do I get rid of this stuff so I can at least get an accurate reading of my nutrients and try to keep my corals fed while I look for more fish? It grows back very quickly along the sand even with siphoning it out every water change.

If you want your nitrate and phosphate readings to be higher, just dose more PO4 and NO3. Your system might not have a large enough food input to generate excess ammonia to create nitrate. The same for phosphate.

Unfortunately, you have an issue having a ULN system, algae growth and wanting to increase nitrate and phosphate levels. As soon as you raise the nutrients, the algae is likely to growing more quickly. I would do a search on turf algae removal. This is a popular topic on R2R and you will find many ideas. Hold off changing anything until the algae is under control or you might soon have a macro algae display.

 

[ReefSlice]

Just to update, I ramped up my po4 dosing and have sodium nitrate coming today to make my own stock solution. Even with double the po4 dosing that was working to keep me between .04-.08 before the algae, I'm still reading 0s. Some corals are looking a bit better though, so that's a start. I did a small water change yesterday and pulled as many clumps of the turf algae off the rock that I could with tweezers and vacuumed it off the sanbed. I am going to dose fluconazole tomorrow to try and break the cycle here. Hopefully this strain of turf algae gets decimated by it. Here's a few photos of the algae out of the tank, you can see how it grows in tight clumps and roots itself into the rock/sand.

 

[MrGisonni]

That turf algae is easy to control. I would be scared of using an algaecide. I grow a little gracilaria and a small clump of caulerpa prolifera in my display that both grow slowly and keep any other undesirable algae at bay. I keep my nitrates in the mid 20s ppm and my reef is happy.

 

[ReefSlice]

I can't seem to find a single person who's really eradicated this stuff without the use of vibrant or something similar. I'm going to hold off on the fluconazole for now but I'm back to daily mb clean dosing for a month or two to see if that helps.
I am now dosing 12 ml of neophos and neonitro a day, feeding twice a day and my nutrients this morning were po4 0.00 and no3 .4. I'm also starting to see a patch of dinos develop on the sand of course. Really torn on what my next move should be, do I keep increasing the nutrient dosing to keep the coral happy and dinos at bay or do I stop dumping nutrients in to keep the turf algae from growing so fast? My po4 was between .03 and .08 with 5 ml of neophos a day and no3 was always ~5 before the algae started growing for reference.

 

[Tamberav]

Do you ever clean the sand bed? It looks pretty coarse which is good at trapping lots of organics and algae loves that stuff.

 

[ReefSlice]

Do you ever clean the sand bed? It looks pretty coarse which is good at trapping lots of organics and algae loves that stuff.

Yes, I clean it frequently and have high flow and nassarius snails keeping it stirred up constantly

 

[ReefSlice]

Bump... I still can't get rid of this stuff. Fluconazole did nothing at all and the turf algae and spots of hair algae continue to grow back after weekly manual removal. Has anyone gotten rid of a turf algae bloom!?