Two sps colony declining, but why?

[tenurepro]

So from Feb till now you have not added anything? If that is true then where would the AEFW's come from?
Strange that they would all of a sudden show up like that.:confused:
I watched the video and everything looked awesome before all of the parameter changes began.

Correct... not sure where they would come. I did add fish, but fish where qt’ed

 

[Reeferdood]

Well, let us know the findings after the dip.
Enquiring minds want to know...

 

[Huskymaniac]

I would be shocked if this was from a pest. My money is on alk swings. Maybe move to a new spot.

 

[Reefer40b]

Although I think its good to rule out pests, Im really thinking this is not and that the swing in parameters is the root cause, and if so you have a few months for things to start looking better again... Hopefully you dont loose anything.

 

[mcarroll]

Lights - 3 x radio xr15 gen 3, average par is between 250 to 350.

That's a lot of light, can you take a PAR or lux measurement at the surface for these corls?

Flow: vectra m1 + 2 x vortech mp10s - turn over rate is about 50X.

Two mp10's is extremely light flow.

This complicates things for corals that are in marginal situations.

I’ve had issues with keeping staple parameters.

Have you sorted these issues out or is it a mystery?

Don't bother doing anything else until you sort this out. :)

Couldn't quote your charts, but your phospates and nitrates are telling a story of potential nutrient limitation.

PO4 runs inexplicably high at .2+ most of the time.

NO3 shows the reason with that crash to zero. Subsequent readings are probably within the +/- of zero, so effectively zero.

No nitrates and phosphate usage will slow/suffer.

Pointing your finger at anyone of these things as the single culprit is a mistake.

These things are all adding up and the coral are just in the most marginal positions in the tank.

Whether there's a pest at work is an open question but I guess not. It certainly has no bearing on any of the above things if there is. ;)

1) pests - > this is my number one concern;

If this is really your number one concern then you may need to be more selective about where you buy corals – and add them one at a time so there's no mystery as to the guilty party if/when it happens.

2¢

 

[tenurepro]

That's a lot of light, can you take a PAR or lux measurement at the surface for these corls?



Two mp10's is extremely light flow.

This complicates things for corals that are in marginal situations.



Have you sorted these issues out or is it a mystery?

Don't bother doing anything else until you sort this out. :)

Couldn't quote your charts, but your phospates and nitrates are telling a story of potential nutrient limitation.

PO4 runs inexplicably high at .2+ most of the time.

NO3 shows the reason with that crash to zero. Subsequent readings are probably within the +/- of zero, so effectively zero.

No nitrates and phosphate usage will slow/suffer.

Pointing your finger at anyone of these things as the single culprit is a mistake.

These things are all adding up and the coral are just in the most marginal positions in the tank.

Whether there's a pest at work is an open question but I guess not. It certainly has no bearing on any of the above things if there is. ;)



If this is really your number one concern then you may need to be more selective about where you buy corals – and add them one at a time so there's no mystery as to the guilty party if/when it happens.

2¢

Yeah the scale is a bit off on the graphs, but nitrates has been stable at about 2 ppm... I troubleshooted tbd Alk and calcium issues and they have stable over the last 2 weeks.

I have measure par over all of these corals

They seem to be in a reasonable place

Re. Flow, I estimate about 50x flow, which I think is sufficient. Most other corals are doing well, wouldn’t something like flow affect most of the tank ?

 

[tenurepro]

Ok guys, I did the dip. Here is the video. I didn’t see anything that looks like aefw...


I followed up with a look at all of the gunk under the scope... seems to be detritus and slime. No signs of flatworms or red bugs There are some closeups in second vid.
Here are some sample pics through scope ocular,

This is the only living thing I saw - seems like a copepod

Please have a look at the vids in case I missed something...

So do we rule out pests ?

 

[mcarroll]

nitrates has been stable at about 2 ppm

Remember that's 2 ppm +/- you kit's accuracy rate, which might be > 2 ppm.

In other words, 2ppm can actually be zero. Check out your test kit manual to see if it tells you this +/-....it should.

Until you confirm one way or the other I'd suggest assuming that it's zero – performance of PO4 backs this up, as does the condition of your corals. (And remember this isn't the only factor at work.)

They seem to be in a reasonable place

I'll take your word for it. In that case, stability of light is the #1 concern....roll back any/all changes and throw away the password to your lighting system. :)

Re. Flow, I estimate about 50x flow, which I think is sufficient.

"X" numbers like "50X" are good for almost nothing.

At most a number like that is merely a starting point to get you the correct number of pumps during the planning stage. Reality trumps the "X" number in 100% of all cases.

A big part of the problem with the "X" number is that it's based on another almost-useless number: GPH.

The most useful aspect of flow is not quantity, or GPH. It's velocity, or centimeters per second.

Flow is invisible, so it's very hard to know what's going on. Especially for a beginner.

Here's my analysis:

The main clue is two little mp10's in a large (36"?) tank.

They're good for everything that's within 12" of the pump. Everything outside this area of effect is in marginal to very marginal flow. Part of the reason for this is that these pumps are extremely low velocity.

I don't see them in the vid – where do you have them located? Willing to switch or add to what you have?

Here's a video on flow that explains a lot and has a great visual demonstration of flow as well:

 

[Reeferdood]

Did those corals grow from frags to where there were before pulling them to dip?

 

[tenurepro]

Did those corals grow from frags to where there were before pulling them to dip?

Yep

 

[29bonsaireef]

Glad to here no FW came off. They can be a nightmare for an SPS system.

I've never used LEDs as a main lighting source, but I hear more and more stories of Alk swing + LED burn resulting in what you're seeing.

Seems like you have no issue growing coral, and the rest of your tank looks healthy. Hearing that there wasn't pests makes me point more towards the raised intensity in lighting mixed with random swings. Maybe look into T5s, run the LEDs at a lower percentage? Flow could have an effect on them as well. Bigger the corals grow the more flow they need.

I run an MP10 on 100% and two large Koralias in my 29nano. The turn over is massive compared to the tank size. Acropora really love flow, some more than others.

 

[Reeferdood]

Yep

This is why I figured it was a shift in parameters or organic that was upsetting the corals...
I would increase nutrients a little and stabilize the Alk swings and I would bet everything will bounce back...

 

[tenurepro]

Just updating you folks on the situation
Based on @mcarrol’s ideas, I decided to enhance flow in my tank to see if it will positively impact the declining acros
So I added two gyres to two mp10s to enhance flow in my reefer 250
Also did a minor aquascape to create more space for water to move.

seeing some super subtle signs of improvement on the two acros that browned out

 

[Mystikal]

This recently happened to me...Several of my larger colonies just went to S***. After looking closely and examining what was occurring, small subtle changes affect different animal/species of sps IMO. For me it was a combination of ALK lowered, with TEMP+ NO & PO rising. (had some life events occur and couldnt tend to the tank) Lost a couple nice pieces and gained a bunch of hair algae. Some thing as subtle as a +1 degree in temperature, or +/-1 in ALK. Watching and testing numbers is great, just DO NOT MAKE drastic correction, do it slowly and things will correct itself. Just try to bring back stability for the SPS.
Good Luck!

 

[Mattrg02]

This recently happened to me...Several of my larger colonies just went to S***. After looking closely and examining what was occurring, small subtle changes affect different animal/species of sps IMO. For me it was a combination of ALK lowered, with TEMP+ NO & PO rising. (had some life events occur and couldnt tend to the tank) Lost a couple nice pieces and gained a bunch of hair algae. Some thing as subtle as a +1 degree in temperature, or +/-1 in ALK. Watching and testing numbers is great, just DO NOT MAKE drastic correction, do it slowly and things will correct itself. Just try to bring back stability for the SPS.
Good Luck!

1deg change in temperature is news to me. I’ve never seen that slight of a change cause any problems. My tank probably sees at least a 2deg change over a day, from lights out to lights on.

 

[Scorpius]

1deg change in temperature is news to me. I’ve never seen that slight of a change cause any problems. My tank probably sees at least a 2deg change over a day, from lights out to lights on.

News to me as well. Now alkalinity swings are a different story.

 

[Mattrg02]

News to me as well. Now alkalinity swings are a different story.

Oh yea, I’ve lost frags the day after getting my alkalinity dose wrong by 1.5dkh.

 

[Tig_Tech]

Did you ever bounce back from this, if you did, what changed? I'm having the same issues.

 

[Gregg @ ADP]

Typically corals bleach when they have too much light, I don’t think lighting is the issue

There are numerous things that induce bleaching. Among them are having PO4 and NO3 levels that are too low (or too high).

edit: looks like this was addressed