Urgent advice needed for poss ich

[forestzoe]

Hi folks. Had a 65g since November. I think but am not 100% that 1 fish may have ich. I say think because it sleeps in the sand and gave me a fright thinking the same a couple of weeks ago only to turn out to be a few grains of sand.

Today, however, it's different and has tiny white spots all over rather than just a few. Can't get a pic at moment as it's settled into it's cave for the night.

No symptoms on any other fish so will check again in the morning (UK ).

I've been cycling a smaller cube and tonight's nh4 no2 and no3 result pics are attached for that. I can take the LR out of the cube in order to use it as a QT (It was being cycled ready for dwarf seahorses and has been cycling for about a month with ghost feeding). The no2 is a little high but would I be better QTing the fish (black fin fairy wrasse) into it regardless and hoping for the best?

I'm aware that if it is ich that I probably need to QT all the fish but the cube isn't big enough (30g). I have a pair of clowns, the wrasse, coral beauty, long nose hawk, bi colour angel, lawnmower Blenny plus emerald crab, cleaner shrimp, orange lip conch, 3 turbo snails and a starfish. Also torch, hammer, mushrooms, ricordia mushroom, 1 good sized feather and multiple minute ones on the LR and 2 electro scallops.

I've been searching desperately for a local tank for sale tonight (and may have found a bargain...wont know until morning, link below). If that's the case, placement is another issue entirely as I run a pub and live in the flat above so there are issues with weight, placement etc.

I have an 80g trop which is 2 months old and has very little in it ( 3cm plec, 6 mickey fins, 1 angel, 2 silver sharks and 2 mollies) and a few year old 65g trop with 6 neons and 10 various others plus a golden nugget plec. Both those tanks have external filter units. At a push could I transfer all trop fish to 1, transfer the LR and inverts plus corals to the cube (using the water already in that, test pics below) and use the water out of the 65g marine in the other trop and then treat all fish with copper?

If I do get the bargain tank/setup it's too big to come into the flat plus I'd prob want to get it resealed anyway after moving it but I can place it in a back room of the pub (which is a shame as it would be out of sight 90% of the time as the room is little used).

I know my LFS can usually offer QT but they've just today had loads of new stock and every tank is full. Sods law.

Sorry for the massive post, just trying to work out all my options and it's just fallen wrong as it's a massively busy day Sunday and I have a family funeral Monday in another city so I'm trying to work through my options in a minimal timeframe.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/148569715751659

White spots are also on fins, which I did not notice earlier. He's burrowed into his cave for the night, which is partly in the sand and I can't easily net him. He's a sod for playing in the sand, hence my minor panic a couple of weeks ago but these white spots are much smaller and seem in the skin rather than on it.

I posted elsewhere (not here)and got told to QT the lot. Yes, I know this, and it's my aim. As of now I have 30g not quite ready, but maybe riskable? which simply isn't big enough for everything hence asking for advice on best way to proceed, quickly. Not even sure if it's poss to empty a trop tank and then use the existing water from the marine, but I am just trying to think through options. With 2 trop tanks it offers a possible solution?

 

[Gareth elliott]

A picture taken with white light will help narrow id. If it was one day a small amount of spots and second day lots of spots sounds more like velvet. But not an expert, ive personally only dealt with Ichthyophthirius.
Link on velvet
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/velvet-amyloodinium-ocellatum.217570/
Link on ich
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ich-cryptocaryon-irritans.191226/

 

[Big G]

Have you added anything new to the tank that was "wet" in the last 30 days or so? Fish, corals, snails, anything wet?

 

[Big G]

If the one fish is covered by tiny white dots, it's probably velvet. Time is your enemy now. Velvet kills rapidly. An entire tank full of fish can be gone in just a few days. And all of the fish are infected. The spots are from the parasites already dropping off of the fish and the cycle is increasing their numbers almost exponentially.

All of the fish need to be moved into a QT and treated for velvet/ich with copper. And the copper needs to be brought up to therapeutic levels ASAP.

The tank that the fish came from is left fallow (fishless) for 76 days to starve out the parasites. Ok to leave all of the inverts, corals, etc. in the tank. Feed as needed.

Do you have access to Bio-Spira or equivalent to treat your QT to get the ammonia eating bacteria going? When using copper your chemical test kits will not work. A Seachem Ammonia Alert Badge will be your best method to watch for ammonia spikes in the QT.

When doing water changes in the QT, always pretreat the water with copper. Never let the copper in the QT drop below therapeutic level, otherwise the 30 day QT period starts over again.

Here's a link with the entire process. You may want to scroll down to the section titled: Emergency Treatment for Marine Velvet.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/velvet-amyloodinium-ocellatum.217570/#post-2499399

 

[forestzoe]

If the one fish is covered by tiny white dots, it's probably velvet. Time is your enemy now. Velvet kills rapidly. An entire tank full of fish can be gone in just a few days. And all of the fish are infected. The spots are from the parasites already dropping off of the fish and the cycle is increasing their numbers almost exponentially.

All of the fish need to be moved into a QT and treated for velvet/ich with copper. And the copper needs to be brought up to therapeutic levels ASAP.

The tank that the fish came from is left fallow (fishless) for 76 days to starve out the parasites. Ok to leave all of the inverts, corals, etc. in the tank. Feed as needed.

Do you have access to Bio-Spira or equivalent to treat your QT to get the ammonia eating bacteria going? When using copper your chemical test kits will not work. A Seachem Ammonia Alert Badge will be your best method to watch for ammonia spikes in the QT.

When doing water changes in the QT, always pretreat the water with copper. Never let the copper in the QT drop below therapeutic level, otherwise the 30 day QT period starts over again.

Here's a link with the entire process. You may want to scroll down to the section titled: Emergency Treatment for Marine Velvet.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/velvet-amyloodinium-ocellatum.217570/#post-2499399

Ok..now I am.panicking.more! I was told to watch for cloudy eyes for velvet. The fish with white dots does not have this.

I have checked ALL fish tonight and despite being told ich spreads quickly, and about a 7 to 9 hr window, no other fish has anything....the coral beauty was introduced this morning and should be most stressed and susceptible? I am still hoping that I am.jumping the gun and that the little sod has been playing in sand again but it looks very different this time. I'm told that you KNOW when it's ich, and the spots this time are eensy. Can't get a pic until whites come back on ( 5.30am here and I really have stressed the fish enough peering at them).

As in my OP, I have a 30g just about cycled. I can remove the LR from that to treat AT fish with copper, but can't fit all of them in a 30g? Or is it better to put them in close quarters anyway?

Have the 2 trop tanks that either has more than enough room for all stock. Can drain either quickly and siphon existing salt water into one in order to use as a emergency QT? And LR and corals in 30g? Leaving 66g fallow?

4 hrs more and tgere are 4 of us so any change can be done quickly

 

[forestzoe]

Have you added anything new to the tank that was "wet" in the last 30 days or so? Fish, corals, snails, anything wet?

Only today, the coral beauty. However, my LFS QT "reserved items". It's been mine for 6 weeks but in a QT tank since then. It was also only after drip acclimating it that I noticed the specks on the wrasse, literally as I was watching to make sure the CB found a safe spot for the 1st few hours.

 

[forestzoe]

Guys n gals, I KNOW you are all trying to help. I appreciate all advice.

My main questions are being ignored. I have a 30g tank which is available for QT. This will not fit the fish I have.

At present that is all I have available, apart from a quick transfer of trop fish to 1 tank and draining the 2nd trop, using the saltwater from DT to refill it and QT all the marine fish. Is this possible? In which case LR and corals plus inverts can be moved to 30g. Leaving 65g fallow and removing sand and prob recycling it.

Options at present:

A 1 fish to 30g às QT and hope the rest are ok for now ie leave main dt fallow later as I get another smaller QT and split fish
B Drain 1 trop, trànsfer fish to other trop. Refill 1 trop with DT (salt) water, move all fish and treat with cu, move inverts corals to 30g (is this.poss?)
C rely on my offer being accepted and the new tank not needing reseals and using that as QT
D pray you guys offer an alternative
E Put all the fish in a 30g to treat.

Looking for lesser of all evils....

 

[forestzoe]

Apologies. Edited to reflect QT and not AT as per autocorrect

 

[foxt]

Post pictures if you can.

In the US, we can buy plastic bins and use those for QT when in need of something big. Is that an option?
How big is the Bicolor? The rest of the fish are small, and would be ok in a 30g qt, if even only to get treatment started right away until you figure something else out. There may be some aggression, you’d need to keep an eye on it.

You only need to remove the fish to go fallow. You can leave everything else in the 65g while going fallow.

If it were me, I would get pictures and confirm you have a problem. If it is a parasite, then I would shoot for option B, except you can leave the coral, rock, inverts in the DT. Since it may take a while to move your trop fish and get the trop tank started, if it is velvet I would move all fish to the 30g that has been cycling and start treatment. You can do water changes to control the ammonia, or add bottled bacteria if you can get it in UK. But first confirm what the problem really is before springing in to action ...

 

[forestzoe]

I can't get a decent pic. dang thing has gone camera shy. This us the only 1 I've been able to get all day.

Can just see 1 spot on his head. His side's are filled as are his fins with tiny white spots.

Ive bought the big tank from the link i posted but can't pick it up til Tuesday.

 

[forestzoe]

Bit better pic

 

[Maritimer]

Forestzoe, the photo does look as though it may be early-stage velvet, as many of the spots are very small. You wouldn't see clouded eyes until the infection is fairly advanced.

I think that if you can get enough flow and biological filtration in the 30-gallon, you could QT the fish (invertebrates can stay in the display through the "fallow" period) in that tank. Liverock would have to be moved out, as it'll absorb copper and some other medications - do you have anything else for biofiltration? HOB with a seeded sponge? If not, can you get hold of something like that?

In case you've not read it, here's an excellent guide for quarantine procedure: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/beginners-guide-to-acclimation-and-quarantine.304980/#post-3736443

~Bruce

 

[Josh Kraft]

How many wrasse do you have? If you end up separating the fish because you do not have a QT big enough, I would put the wrasse(s) by themselves, as they require you to slowly raise the copper levels. They will take the longest to get to therapeutic levels, which may jeopardize the success of your QT. Velvet is fast, so getting to therapeutic as fast as possible is important, but wrasse are sensitive to copper and require you to slowly raise your copper level.

 

[foxt]

It is really hard to tell from the pic what you have on that fish. How is this fish doing? Have any of the other fish developed symptoms?

 

[forestzoe]

Sorry for late reply, it's been a crazy week work wise.

We (being me and LFS) think we've sussed what it is. The wrasse has been nibbling at the hammer. And by nibbling, I mean chunks, and we think it's being stung. No spots on anything else and everything behaving, eating normally.

So I've gone to catch the wrasse to put it into the 30g and the little barsteward has dived into the waterfall. After over an hour trying to catch it and it playing hide n seek round the pipe in the limited space I've given up. I've put a stocking over the downpipe and left it there. I'll try again after lights out but not holding out much hope tbh and don't want it jumping out the back (tank is against a wall in a corner).

 

[forestzoe]

No raised bumps and no change. Except it's now in the blinking waterfall.

 

[forestzoe]

Forgot to add, I've bought the 5ft 125g and the 4ft 75g that will eventually be QT. Both are being resealed and will be ready by next weekend. I also have a bathtub full of live rock, heaters and flow to go into the 125g ready to cycle.

 

[Maritimer]

I'm not sure what you mean by "in the waterfall" - do you mean it's leaped into the overflow? Those white spots now look a _lot_ like velvet to me. Small, and "too numerous to count".

~Bruce

 

[forestzoe]

The Weir. I couldnt think of the correct term!

That's a better pic but the spots have been like that from the start. I still can't get it out of the weir, set a baited bottle trap last last night and will try again tonight.

 

[Big G]

Some resort to using a barbless fish hook and line in tight quarters.