Urgent!! Do I have ich or velvet?

125mph · Mar 17, 2017

Hmm maybe he had both flukes and velvet.. anyway, I just did a fw dip on him again.. my clowns have the whitespots now.. they're almost platnium clowns so I couldnt see the white spots before but now I can.. just fw dipped everyone basically. This time, the fw dip didn't seem to change regal's condition...

I got a better look at the regal angel after the fw dip with lights on.. He is fully covered in small white spots now though the whitespots are so small , you cant tell without good lighting due to his brought colors. Not looking good.

Breakthecycle2 · Mar 17, 2017

They are getting spots still with the copper that high?

125mph · Mar 17, 2017

Breakthecycle2 said:
They are getting spots still with the copper that high?

Well, I just noticed the spots on the regal this morning which weren't there yesterday.. but could it be the velvet was already attached but the dinoflagellate were still growing, and today I can see them because they've feed on him since?

Breakthecycle2 · Mar 17, 2017

125mph said:
Well, I just noticed the spots on the regal this morning which weren't there yesterday.. but could it be the velvet was already attached but the dinoflagellate were still growing, and today I can see them because they've feed on him since?

How long has the copper been at that level?

125mph · Mar 17, 2017

Breakthecycle2 said:
How long has the copper been at that level?

Since wednesday (2 days).

This whole ordeal has sucked. I thought it was ich and implemented hypo on by Sunday... THen realized it wasn't ich and brought salinity back to 1.019 by Tuesday. Then implemented copper over 24 hours from Tuesday to Wednesday... So during that time window, the dinoflagellate may have magnified.

125mph · Mar 17, 2017

1 hour till lunch time.. I can stop by the store to get ruby rally and do a bath for them.. Should I?

Breakthecycle2 · Mar 17, 2017

The copper should be having an effect on them by now.

125mph · Mar 17, 2017

Doing a reef rally bath right now.. 20 minutes left... They seem to be tolerating the bath quite well, even the regal is swimming around.

I did 3 teaspoons with about 3.5 gallons of water. Will put them right back in the copper water tank afterwards.

Humblefish · Mar 17, 2017

125mph said:
Doing a reef rally bath right now.. 20 minutes left... They seem to be tolerating the bath quite well, even the regal is swimming around.

I did 3 teaspoons with about 3.5 gallons of water. Will put them right back in the copper water tank afterwards.

The acriflavine (and aminoacridine) found in Rally will help ward off infection. This is more important than it may sound. When fish are sick with parasites, a secondary bacterial infection compounding the problem can be the death blow.

125mph · Mar 17, 2017

Humblefish said:
The acriflavine (and aminoacridine) found in Rally will help ward off infection. This is more important than it may sound. When fish are sick with parasites, a secondary bacterial infection compounding the problem can be the death blow.

Well, I thought the regal was a goner this morning... was very very weak.. at the time, i gave him 2-3 hours from past experience..

After the rally bath this afternoon, he seems to be much stronger and swimming better. Also isn't breathing as heavy too. Not sure if it was the rallly but right now, his odds look much better.

Humblefish · Mar 17, 2017

125mph said:
Well, I thought the regal was a goner this morning... was very very weak.. at the time, i gave him 2-3 hours from past experience..

After the rally bath this afternoon, he seems to be much stronger and swimming better. Also isn't breathing as heavy too. Not sure if it was the rallly but right now, his odds look much better.

He also could be struggling with the copper. (I'm assuming he was out of copper for the Rally bath?) Some fish, especially large angels, can be copper intolerant.

125mph · Mar 19, 2017

Ugh... cant figure out whats going on.. My PT has the white dots again, and now the potters is covered with the white dots.. Its so faint and small, its very hard to tell. I know this is definitely velvet due to the sensitively to light and the regal likes to run into the direction of the powerhead. The dots are also dust-like.

So copper has been around 2.00ppm (coppersafe) since Wednesday. Just verified again today. Today is Sunday. New spots appeared either yesterday or today.

Could it be the white spots were there but they are growing in size before they drop off, so I couldnt see them until now? Like if they infected my fish on Tuesday or Wednesday, and only today I could see it?

Or is this really new velvet infecting?

Humblefish · Mar 19, 2017

There is a delayed reaction from when the trophont attaches and the white spot shows up. Since the latter is excess mucous which builds up around the insertion point, it is a reaction to the presence of a trophont.

With ich, the trophont can remain for 3-7 days before dropping off; for velvet its 12 hrs - 4 days. However, it is also logical to conclude there will be a slight delayed reaction as well for the white spot to "clear up" after the trophont is gone.

125mph · Mar 19, 2017

Humblefish said:
There is a delayed reaction from when the trophont attaches and the white spot shows up. Since the latter is excess mucous which builds up around the insertion point, it is a reaction to the presence of a trophont.

With ich, the trophont can remain for 3-7 days before dropping off; for velvet its 12 hrs - 4 days. However, it is also logical to conclude there will be a slight delayed reaction as well for the white spot to "clear up" after the trophont is gone.

Ahh.. So for now I may be safe still.. On Wednesday night, my copper level was at 2.00ppm.. its been almost 4 days, so any white spots could be from the bites from Monday or Tuesday or Wednesday morning. I'm going to make a 4 gallon of salt water and put 1 teaspoon of copper in it, to see how the test result shows and compare those results to the one from the hospital tank to see if I'm below, at or above 2.00ppm.

125mph · Mar 21, 2017

Okay, in process of doing a rally bath. I tried to minimize any water transfer from the copper tank to the rally bath tank. Wonder what the odds are any parasites could attach to fish in rally?

Humblefish · Mar 21, 2017

125mph said:
Okay, in process of doing a rally bath. I tried to minimize any water transfer from the copper tank to the rally bath tank. Wonder what the odds are any parasites could attach to fish in rally?

Unlikely, its only 90 mins.

125mph · Mar 21, 2017

Okay, Rally bath is done. And then fed the fish, all ate well except the regal angel again. White spots still there.. I'm still convinced this is velvet but who knowz.. Hopefully CP comes soon and it will catch ich/velvet/brook.

But unforatuenly the Regal looks very bad. I think he's too far gone for cure. Might be suffering from secondary infection right now.

125mph · Mar 22, 2017

This morning, all still alive. The last time I saw new white spots was a few days ago... the potters angel is still scratching a lot (similar to how the regal was scratching last week). Regal still looks terrible and I think it has secondary infections. I put it in the 20g with the wrasse and gave it kanaplex.

Strange enough, both the melanurus and mystery wrasse don't seen to have any white spots at all.. They're the only fish that seem to be least affected.. The next set that are least affected are the clowns.

If this is velvet or brook and the copper wasn't working, I should have had a death by now right? 2 weeks ago was the first sign of scratching, and copper full therapeutic dose reached exactly 1 week ago.

Humblefish · Mar 22, 2017

Can you post a photo of the Regal showing the infection?

125mph · Mar 22, 2017

Well... Here is one of the clowns today:

And this was yesterday:

New spots or nothing? So hard to tell.

This is now officially 7 days since copper has been at 2.00ppm.. Could this just be ich? Spots are scattered and tiny, doesnt seem like it..