Utilising the CNP in phytoplankton to carbon dose my system.

sixty_reefer · Sep 5, 2022

djf91 said:
Would you say carbon dosing and dosing phyto have similar effects on a system?

Without a control tank is a question that is fairly complicated for someone like me to answer. I can comment only on what I’ve seen in my tank,
It’s a small volume of water (25 gallons) that I believe many would consider overstocked at 9 fish, with the exception of phosphates that keeps getting depleted I’m able to keep it stable at 10ppm nitrates phosphates normally are depleted at a 0.1 ppm a week although I don’t mind that it’s cheaper to dose phosphates that buying absorbing medias like GFO etc.. the tank has a feeding of 3 cubes of frozen a day and additional 4 ppm of nitrogen via doser. There is no external filter or large amounts of live rock, just basic water flow, light (50w) and heating.
The sand bed stays fairly clean just do sand clean every now and then with a 5 gallon water change and the water is always Cristal clear.
I would imagine that other tank with the same spec and without the addition of live phytoplankton Could become fairly polluted fairly quickly.
The magic number for my system seems to be the 1.92 ml per gallon. And as you can see from previous pictures it took a wile to develop it had bad looking days during the period of adjusting the phytoplankton and it had some pretty ugly days every time the nutrients were depleted. I will carry on with the method as I like the simplicity of how everything is working at the moment.
I’ve tried to be fairly honest in my observations and I’m only limiting in knowledge to explain it further.
the only thing I may had is that I’ve seen a post from one of the sponsors from tropic marine explaining that the carbon from algae has different polymers from normal carbon dosing sources and he mentioned that the one from the algae was more complex and difficult to nuisance species to utilise it.

edit: the phytoplankton reactor is still going strong and it’s most likely to be the second longest continuous phytoplankton culture going on R2R without crashing.

sixty_reefer · Sep 7, 2022

sixty_reefer said:
Stick 2 progress so far

algae not looking to bad also

djf91 · Sep 7, 2022

Lookin good and like it’s coloring up. Can you post up a full spectrum pic?

sixty_reefer · Sep 8, 2022

djf91 said:
Lookin good and like it’s coloring up. Can you post up a full spectrum pic?

Sure, only full whites I can’t get any decently pictures without a filter on with the blue channel on

First day

Now

djf91 · Sep 14, 2022

Any updates?

I’ve been dosing about 1/4 gallon of Nanno a day to my 600 gallon system on a doser for the past 10 days. Still having some minor GHA issues but not bad, and growth on the GHA may have haulted. Microfaunal pelagic life seems to have increased greatly though. Turning off flow to my refugium at night and shining a flash light in the still water, I can see an increased diversity of what may be different copepod species or other small “swimmers”. Coral health may have increased slightly. My large Maxima clam that wouldn’t attach for the longest time finally has attached to the rockwork. Will test nutrients tonight, been lazy about that the past couple of weeks.

Considering adding NOPOX dosing to my regime here in the future if I can’t bring nitrate and phosphate down. Tested two weeks ago and they were N: 20 P:0.06

sixty_reefer · Sep 14, 2022

djf91 said:
Any updates?

I’ve been dosing about 1/4 gallon of Nanno a day to my 600 gallon system on a doser for the past 10 days. Still having some minor GHA issues but not bad, and growth on the GHA may have haulted. Microfaunal pelagic life seems to have increased greatly though. Turning off flow to my refugium at night and shining a flash light in the still water, I can see an increased diversity of what may be different copepod species or other small “swimmers”. Coral health may have increased slightly. My large Maxima clam that wouldn’t attach for the longest time finally has attached to the rockwork. Will test nutrients tonight, been lazy about that the past couple of weeks.

Considering adding NOPOX dosing to my regime here in the future if I can’t bring nitrate and phosphate down. Tested two weeks ago and they were N: 20 P:0.06

Unfortunately I don’t have many updates to do as the system seems to just run automated mode, nutrients are stable at my desired residual and thank inhabitants doing well.

I would expect that you would start seeing a drop in your nutrients around the 10 to 15 days will be interesting to know your existing residual, have your protein skimmer started to do less yet?

Graffiti Spot · Sep 14, 2022

I know it would kill your experiment to a degree but I think adding a small amount of vinegar would really boost the micro life in the tank and I bet the two would really compliment each other. I have always wanted to try live cultures alongside a carbon source. I am certainly a huge fan of vodka vinegar, especially for how it explodes sponge populations and such life.
Have you seen any filter feeding life like sponge increase since starting this?

sixty_reefer · Sep 14, 2022

Graffiti Spot said:
I know it would kill your experiment to a degree but I think adding a small amount of vinegar would really boost the micro life in the tank and I bet the two would really compliment each other. I have always wanted to try live cultures alongside a carbon source. I am certainly a huge fan of vodka vinegar, especially for how it explodes sponge populations and such life.
Have you seen any filter feeding life like sponge increase since starting this?

Phytoplankton is already a carbon source on its own, do you mean add different sources of dissolved organic carbon to boost different bacteria strains at the same time?
I can’t see much developments on tunicates and sponges as of yet, I can say that the ones I have are not dying at the moment they only young it may take a few years until they start spreading around the system. I am adding a very small maintenance dose of silica for that reason as it can limit the growth of some organisms in the system.

djf91 · Sep 14, 2022

Graffiti Spot said:
I know it would kill your experiment to a degree but I think adding a small amount of vinegar would really boost the micro life in the tank and I bet the two would really compliment each other. I have always wanted to try live cultures alongside a carbon source. I am certainly a huge fan of vodka vinegar, especially for how it explodes sponge populations and such life.
Have you seen any filter feeding life like sponge increase since starting this?

this is what I’m about to try. Was thinking nopox.

djf91 · Sep 14, 2022

sixty_reefer said:
Unfortunately I don’t have many updates to do as the system seems to just run automated mode, nutrients are stable at my desired residual and thank inhabitants doing well.

I would expect that you would start seeing a drop in your nutrients around the 10 to 15 days will be interesting to know your existing residual, have your protein skimmer started to do less yet?

Still about the same, things seem to take a long time in this system though.

k2- · Oct 10, 2022

Hey - following and curious how is it coming along and growth ?

sixty_reefer · Oct 10, 2022

k2- said:
Hey - following and curious how is it coming along and growth ?

Hi, I’ve lost all 4 acro colonies, I did mentioned earlier in the thread that they started STN, that was unfortunate as they were doing really well until all the sudden they started to perish one by one. I haven’t done any changes as with wild acros it’s always complicated. The montipora is growing well still as are all the macro algaes and the more hard to keep NPS corals.
The equipment on this tank is fairly simple and I struggle to add some equipment, I wasn’t able to connect a ATU due to logistics. We going trough a house extension at the moment.

overhaul it’s been going well and in the direction I enjoy. Most of my macro algaes are fairly hard to keep and normally very slow growers, I believe that ion another year they will cover the back wall of the system, I’ve got several NPS growing well under the shade of the macro algaes and my dendronephtya stays open most of the time (no signs of growth yet)

nutrient wise the system has been a sinkhole it’s taking a crazy amount of nutrients weekly to keep them stable. On average 0.1ppm phosphates and 10 ppm nitrates not all due to the phytoplankton as I’m experimenting with more natural carbohydrates to achieve a system that is not carbon limited but N and P limited. Probably the reason I haven’t updated the thread as much as it could be misleading that all is due to phytoplankton.

my weekly dosing at the moment is a mix of potassium nitrate, calcium nitrate, urea, ammonia, several forms of phosphates, carbohydrate, silica, amino acids, trace elements and 336ml phytoplankton. With this blend the system stays stable at 5-10 nitrates and 0.1 ppm phosphates.

sixty_reefer · Oct 10, 2022

sixty_reefer · Oct 18, 2022

sixty_reefer · Dec 6, 2022

From today, I had some health issues that haven’t allowed me to properly take care of the system for a wile, luckily the system took care of itself.

Reef tank ecosystem

youtube.com

Graffiti Spot · Dec 7, 2022

sixty_reefer said:
Phytoplankton is already a carbon source on its own, do you mean add different sources of dissolved organic carbon to boost different bacteria strains at the same time?
I can’t see much developments on tunicates and sponges as of yet, I can say that the ones I have are not dying at the moment they only young it may take a few years until they start spreading around the system. I am adding a very small maintenance dose of silica for that reason as it can limit the growth of some organisms in the system.

Yea I have always been a huge fan of using two different carbon sources, although I don’t view the phytoplankton as a carbon source that’s alike to vodka or vinegar. All the corals your keeping, I found did really well for me when I started using a vodka vinegar mix.
I would have expected you to develop some new sponge growth in the tank or something like that by now. But clear water and low nutrients with everything else your getting is impressive! Love the thread.

sixty_reefer · Dec 7, 2022

Graffiti Spot said:
Yea I have always been a huge fan of using two different carbon sources, although I don’t view the phytoplankton as a carbon source that’s alike to vodka or vinegar. All the corals your keeping, I found did really well for me when I started using a vodka vinegar mix.
I would have expected you to develop some new sponge growth in the tank or something like that by now. But clear water and low nutrients with everything else your getting is impressive! Love the thread.

Thank you, I like the carbohydrates from phytoplankton mainly due to be something that we can find in larger ecosystem I’ve come to top up with other natural source of carbohydrates as I can’t increase the dose, I am fairly happy with the results myself also this system never had to have any GAC or GFO to run and it’s simplicity makes it enjoyable for me due to not have as much time for maintenance anymore. The dead rock is not being very helpful with sponges I need to try and find some small pieces with them on on the other hand the bivalves doing well

Graffiti Spot · Dec 7, 2022

That’s a good idea to try and get a fresh live rock with the sponge on it. Sponge were locking 20 pound rocks together in my refuge on my last system and it was really fun to watch grow. It must be an amazing feeling to have clear water and low nutrients using such a natural method. I have the feeling you will have good growth with sponge and such things once they are added again. Looking forward to future updates and wish you to get better with your health!!! I am fighting with the big c right now so I feel ya.