Dosing Live Phytoplankton for a more Balanced Reef Tank Ecosystem?

[ingchr1]

I was recently at a planetarium where they were displaying a program on the Earth. One of the major points in the program was that phytoplankton are the base of the food chain in the oceans.

Since phytoplankton are such an important part of life on earth, should dosing them be placed right up there with using live rock? Maybe even placed above using live rock? My general impression is that live rock gets pushed a lot more than live phyto for a balanced/diverse ecosystem.

Are the live phytoplankton commonly available in hobby for purchase, the ones one would need to achieve such a goal?

 

[BAMatter]

I dose lots of live phyto after buying some frags and talking reef stuff with Dong from AcroGardens. I’d recommend if you want to dose to find someone who cultures it, or culture yourself, to substantially keep costs down.

 

[ingchr1]

I dose lots of live phyto after buying some frags and talking reef stuff with Dong from AcroGardens. I’d recommend if you want to dose to find someone who cultures it, or culture yourself, to substantially keep costs down.

My tank is a 40-gallon AIO (~31 gallons of water), so cost isn't really a factor. Others with larger tanks, I can see how it would be very costly.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

I culture my own phyto and dose it to my tank, its like a sub-hobby of the reef hobby. Lots of folks do it, there are lots of articles and DIY videos on line.

To be honest I don't notice much benefit to my system, not in a way that my eyes can see.

I don't think it works the same as the ocean in our tanks. There is no food chain in our tanks, therefor no need for the basis of a food chain. We supply supply the plankton to feed our corals, and we supply the food to the fish.

 

[crazyfishmom]

I’ve taken the approach of trying to maintain my tanks using bacteria and phytoplankton. I feed my fish of course, but I find that my corals really love the phyto/bacteria mix. It may be snake oil and I’m just imagining it but my tanks are doing great since I started doing this and my nutrients are much more balanced. I had huge issues with nutrient management in my first tank so when I started this one I tried to go as natural as possible and it has worked for my system.

 

[BAMatter]

My tank is a 40-gallon AIO (~31 gallons of water), so cost isn't really a factor. Others with larger tanks, I can see how it would be very costly.

Costly is relative. Because it doesn’t cost as much due to smaller size, does not in any way mean it costs less when you compare dollars to amounts long term. Reef Nutrition Live Phyto Feast is $52 for 32 oz. I can by a literal gallon of locally cultured phyto, literally 4 times as much, for $60, and regardless of size tank would explore this option, or something similar like culturing your own.

 

[ingchr1]

Costly is relative. Because it doesn’t cost as much due to smaller size, does not in any way mean it costs less when you compare dollars to amounts long term. Reef Nutrition Live Phyto Feast is $52 for 32 oz. I can by a literal gallon of locally cultured phyto, literally 4 times as much, for $60, and regardless of size tank would explore this option, or something similar like culturing your own.

Understand, but I'm not interested in culturing my own or trying to find someone local whom may or may not be making an adequate culture. At my current dosing rate, a 6oz bottle of Reef Nutrition lasts me a couple of months.

 

[BAMatter]

Understand, but I'm not interested in culturing my own or trying to find someone local whom may or may not be making an adequate culture. At my current dosing rate, a 6oz bottle of Reef Nutrition lasts me a couple of months.

It shouldn’t though, you’d need to dose far more than that for a benefit. This was info I’ve gathered from an SPS farmer. Live phyto is likely no longer live after a month, regardless of what is advertised. Just trying to help pass some good info along.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

My general impression is that live rock gets pushed a lot more than live phyto for a balanced/diverse ecosystem.

Are the live phytoplankton commonly available in hobby for purchase, the ones one would need to achieve such a goal?

My understanding is that live rock is pushed for the bacterial diversity rather than just general diversity (though there are usually plenty of diverse hitchhikers that come with the rock). Phyto, on the other hand, doesn't seem to have a readily apparent benefit/use for most species of either corals or fish we purposefully keep.

So, while adding phyto would add the general diversity of the tank, it wouldn't add bacterial diversity (the microbiome) like the live rock would, and the bacteria is what is thought to help the tank stabilize, mature, etc.

That said, the live phytoplankton species available would definitely be able to help things like pods, filter feeders (feather dusters, some sea cucumbers, etc.), etc. thrive in our tanks.


As a final note, yes, if we were running our tanks like the ocean (i.e. if our tanks had a proper food chain), then we would absolutely push phytoplankton heavily - as Mr. Mojo Rising above, though, our tanks are not truly run like the ocean; we provide the food, and there's no real food chain in the tanks. If you're interested in running a tank with a real food chain, see the thread below:

Can someone lay out the kind of things I might need to do to sustain an Atlantic/Gulf shelf or estuary biotope with no mech filtration?

I've been doing a lot of reading through the forums and I am very interested in a nutrient recycling setup with no mechanical filtration, which would ideally make maintenance minimal. A pretty big challenge it seems, and not many people opt to create a closed loop recycling system so hard info...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[t5Nitro]

@Eldredge is a member that cultures and sells some awesome phyto. I have him send me some on an every 2 month interval. Promoting him here since his stuff is always great.

 

[Garf]

and there's no real food chain in the tanks.

I did the whole phyto growing thing added directly to the tank and saw no benefit. Then progressed onto feeding rotifers and copepods with it, then added those to the tank. But man it was a lot of work, especially depressing when a culture crashes.

 

[BAMatter]

I did the whole phyto growing thing added directly to the tank and saw no benefit. Then progressed onto feeding rotifers and copepods with it, then added those to the tank. But man it was a lot of work, especially depressing when a culture crashes.

I find it helps keep a robust pod population and algaes contained, as well as keeping other nutrients in check.

 

[ingchr1]

Probably a question that cannot be answered. Would a tank benefit more from the general diversity of phyto, or the bacterial diversity of live rock? Are both of equal importance? Are both really not that important at all to our systems?

These things are often unquantifiable to most hobbyists. Is there a benefit, even if we cannot see it with our eyes? I cannot quantify the benefit that adding live rock has done to my tank. I like what I can see that it has brought into my tank, but has it benefited the tank overall? I'm not so sure.

...So, while adding phyto would add the general diversity of the tank, it wouldn't add bacterial diversity (the microbiome) like the live rock would, and the bacteria is what is thought to help the tank stabilize, mature, etc...

I culture my own phyto and dose it to my tank, its like a sub-hobby of the reef hobby. Lots of folks do it, there are lots of articles and DIY videos on line.

To be honest I don't notice much benefit to my system, not in a way that my eyes can see...

 

[ingchr1]

It shouldn’t though, you’d need to dose far more than that for a benefit. This was info I’ve gathered from an SPS farmer. Live phyto is likely no longer live after a month, regardless of what is advertised. Just trying to help pass some good info along.

As a point of reference, how much Phyto-Fest Live needs to be dosed to see a benefit? Are dosing rates based on water volume solely, or do other factors need to be taken into consideration?

 

[Aquariumaddictuk]

I was recently at a planetarium where they were displaying a program on the Earth. One of the major points in the program was that phytoplankton are the base of the food chain in the oceans.

Since phytoplankton are such an important part of life on earth, should dosing them be placed right up there with using live rock? Maybe even placed above using live rock? My general impression is that live rock gets pushed a lot more than live phyto for a balanced/diverse ecosystem.

Are the live phytoplankton commonly available in hobby for purchase, the ones one would need to achieve such a goal?

I use live phyto.i don't follow any specific programme just a small glug per day.
It's mainly to feed my pods tbh.
I think it's helpful as part of the chain of diversity but certainly not the sole "miracle in a bottle" that some YouTube videos claim.

 

[BAMatter]

As a point of reference, how much Phyto-Fest Live needs to be dosed to see a benefit? Are dosing rates based on water volume solely, or do other factors need to be taken into consideration?

I’m not terribly sure what the amount was that I was told, but it was fairly eye brow lifting and along the lines of the high, maybe even higher, than the top end recommendation by companies like ReefNutrition and AlgaeBarn.

Personally, in my WaterBox 60.2 and Tideline AOI 32, I dose around 15-20’s daily. Sometimes twice is polyp extension is looking pretty fire. My 75 gallon is around twice those amounts.

Now, I’m no expert, nor could I give you the whys/whats/hows the live phyto provide. But I will say, when I was battling Dinos that live phyto I firmly believe is what has helped me remove them and continue to have a healthy system. My LFS doses it, and after speaking to someone who has several generations worth of SPS colonies and frags, I try to walk in their footsteps in areas where I can.

(I just checked my fridge, as I had a bottle of 6oz Reef Nutrition delivered on Wed, it’s almost gone… going to be picking up some bulk today since I’m going sticks shopping)

 

[taricha]

Probably a question that cannot be answered. Would a tank benefit more from the general diversity of phyto, or the bacterial diversity of live rock?

somewhat unanswerable. But let's discuss anyway. Neither is needed. Some get great coral growth in frag tanks that get neither.
live rock adds some bacteria, yes but over years its main role bacterially will be to provide rough calcified surfaces where nutrients from the tank can be processed by the biofilm community, of which bacteria is a critical part.
Phyto is primarily nutrition, though there is some amount of microbial community that comes with a bag of live phyto. But that community is driven by the phyto and won't persist after the phyto is gone.
the most noticeable thing when dosing phyto is a change to the tiny benthic community, small organisms - pods, filter feeders etc. So the nutrient processing biofilms that cover the live rock will change in response to the nutrient input of phyto.
But in ways that are very small, and likely you won't care about.

 

[BAMatter]

As a point of reference, how much Phyto-Fest Live needs to be dosed to see a benefit? Are dosing rates based on water volume solely, or do other factors need to be taken into consideration?

I was talking to the farmer that got me into phyto. He recommends 1 oz per 50 gallons, daily. I bought a gallon for $40, and it will last me 30 days between all 3 of my tanks.

 

[ingchr1]

I'm assuming one would also need to account for concentration of the phyto, as all are different. Reef Nutrition seemingly more concentrated than most. They recommend ~0.1 to 0.4 oz per 50 gallons.

I was talking to the farmer that got me into phyto. He recommends 1 oz per 50 gallons, daily. I bought a gallon for $40, and it will last me 30 days between all 3 of my tanks.

 

[Ernie Mccracken]

To be honest I don't notice much benefit to my system, not in a way that my eyes can see.

I've long suspected that we are under-dosing, by a lot. Corals feed all day long, but in our tanks we are giving them a tiny spritz of food every day or every few days. Makes sense there wouldn't be some huge growth difference.

What if we fed all day long and constantly had phyto in suspension? Need some serious nutrient export, though.