UV Installation Question

[Balanje]

I have a 90gal tank with ~40gal sump. Photo of sump below.

I have purchased a TMC Vecton 600 (25-watt) UV sterilizer.
I got a dedicated pump for it - Eheim CompactON 3000 (792 GPH).

My question is, what is the best compartment to place the pump and return? I was thinking of putting the pump in the skimmer compartment (1st chamber) and returning into the refugium middle chamber)... Is that right? Or would I then be bypassing that water from the skimmer and doing myself a disservice?

Alternative could be putting the pump in the refugium compartment and the return into the compartment with the main return pump but I think that would introduce microbubbles into the return.

Any advice welcome. Sump pictured below.

 

[Ludders]

It's best to direct the return at your skimmer.

 

[Balanje]

Yea? So pump and return into the same chamber? Won't I be sending 'cleaned' water back into the UV?

 

[Ludders]

I guess you could depending on your setup.

 

[hybridazn]

I wouldn't put the feed pump in the fuge since it will suck up tiny critters and send them to their death in the UV. I say put the feed pump in the skimmer chamber and then have the return come out by the return pump to direct it to the display.

 

[Daniel Waters]

I second #hybridazn recommendation. While some of the water in the skimmer section may not make it into the skimmer, the water will be returned to the main tank and mixed / diffused. I believe organics in water will diffuse itself fairly rapidly among other water molecules. Try not to think of it as x amount of water is getting no skimming and y amount is. The non-skimmed water will return to the tank, the nutrients will diffuse across the tank, part of that water will be taken into the skimmer and some won't. But the water will continue to mix and diffuse, so effectively all the water will be skimmed. There probably is some loss of efficiency from doing it this way, but I can't imagine it's significant.

And, if I'm way off base, please someone else chime in. I'm no expert on fluid dynamics or diffusion. I just stayed at a Holiday Inn last night.

 

[Balanje]

I just stayed at a Holiday Inn last night.

Authoritative certifications noted!

Thanks for the input. I was leaning that way but didn't want to rob Peter to pay Paul. You're explanation sounds logical enough to me!

 

[Dirk Griffin]

Your flow thru the uv is way to strong. Cut it by at least half
200-300 gph is ideal
That much flow is borderline use less. The water needs slower flow for more exposure time to be effective

Authoritative certifications noted!

Thanks for the input. I was leaning that way but didn't want to rob Peter to pay Paul. You're explanation sounds logical enough to me!

 

[Lasse]

Most important issue to solve when your plan where your intake will be being that the UVC needs a very clear water and a water free of microbubbles in order to work properly. Microbubbles (of all sizes) and particles with a size over 5 microns will diffuses and reflects UVC radiation. Its never wrong with mechanical filtration before an UVC chamber.

According to flow rate – follow the recommendations from the manufacturer – different brands solve different problems in different ways – therefore there is no universal flowrate/watt. Normally – it’s a good idea to have the flow in the middle of their recommendations

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Balanje]

Your flow thru the uv is way to strong. Cut it by at least half
200-300 gph is ideal
That much flow is borderline use less. The water needs slower flow for more exposure time to be effective

I was talking to the vendor and their recommendation was 30 gph per watt for level 1 sterilization... so for the 25 watt unit, 750 gph was recommended. I went with the 792 gph to account for some head pressure.

I think level 2 sterilization required significantly lower gph, in the 300 range. Is that what you are referring to or are you saying for level 1 sterilization I would need to be that low?

 

[Lasse]

What it means with level 1 and level 2 sterilization ?

According to the manufactor´s manual - max flowrate for V2ecton 600 - 505 US gallon/hour

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Balanje]

What it means with level 1 and level 2 sterilization ?

According to the manufactor´s manual - max flowrate for V2ecton 600 - 505 US gallon/hour

Sincerely Lasse

Below quoted from this write up:
http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumUVSterilization.html#flowtable

 

[Lasse]

Never, ever have heard about one level or two level UVC sterilizer according to bacteria, virus and parasites in my professional life. Either it kills or not kill as I have learned. The function of UV radiation is damage on the DNA of the microorganism and there is only one usable active wavelength - that´s 254 nm - even if there is, now and then, claim from vendors of broad spectra UVC. The effect is depending of the strength of radiation and the residence time in the radiation chamber.

The TMC product line is based on low-pressure mercury-vapour lamps and these lamps emit most of their radiation at 254 nm. Its also emit some radiation in the 185 -186 nm range – also known as the ozone producing wavelength. This makes them a pretty nasty germ killing machine (especially if you combine them with a little hydrogen peroxide) but they need a certain residence time to be effective. The Vecton 600 is both for freshwater and saltwater and in freshwater – if the aim only is to kill of phytoplankton (algae) – maybe the flow of 30-35 GPH/watt is enough.

However, in order to be effective for other microorganisms in saltwater (especially cryptocarion (itch)) its much to fast flow. Even your source mentions a flow of 10 GPH/watt in this case. Must people use the UVC to minimize the amount of cryptocarion parasites – the main goal with using UVC in saltwater.

10 GPH/W in this case correspond to a flow rate of 250 GPH – a third of your flow. 10 GPH also correspond to the recommendation from TMC according to their professional product line – a line that I from own experience know working well in order to block the parasite (and other microorganism) from spreading to different aquariums in the same system.

I totally agree with Dirk Griffin (post 8) in this case

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Balanje]

Never, ever have heard about one level or two level UVC sterilizer according to bacteria, virus and parasites in my professional life. Either it kills or not kill as I have learned. The function of UV radiation is damage on the DNA of the microorganism and there is only one usable active wavelength - that´s 254 nm - even if there is, now and then, claim from vendors of broad spectra UVC. The effect is depending of the strength of radiation and the residence time in the radiation chamber.

The TMC product line is based on low-pressure mercury-vapour lamps and these lamps emit most of their radiation at 254 nm. Its also emit some radiation in the 185 -186 nm range – also known as the ozone producing wavelength. This makes them a pretty nasty germ killing machine (especially if you combine them with a little hydrogen peroxide) but they need a certain residence time to be effective. The Vecton 600 is both for freshwater and saltwater and in freshwater – if the aim only is to kill of phytoplankton (algae) – maybe the flow of 30-35 GPH/watt is enough.

However, in order to be effective for other microorganisms in saltwater (especially cryptocarion (itch)) its much to fast flow. Even your source mentions a flow of 10 GPH/watt in this case. Must people use the UVC to minimize the amount of cryptocarion parasites – the main goal with using UVC in saltwater.

10 GPH/W in this case correspond to a flow rate of 250 GPH – a third of your flow. 10 GPH also correspond to the recommendation from TMC according to their professional product line – a line that I from own experience know working well in order to block the parasite (and other microorganism) from spreading to different aquariums in the same system.

I totally agree with Dirk Griffin (post 8) in this case

Sincerely Lasse

Thank you, Lasse. I appreciate the information as well as the time it takes to write it up! Looks like I bought the wrong pump! Glad I didn't get it in the water yet. I'll exchange it for the Sicce that is adjustable up to 357 GPH and will look to achieve around 250.

Thanks to everyone who has responded. This is my first 'big boy' tank so I'm learning as I go.

 

[Lasse]

Thank you, Lasse. I appreciate the information as well as the time it takes to write it up! Looks like I bought the wrong pump! Glad I didn't get it in the water yet. I'll exchange it for the Sicce that is adjustable up to 357 GPH and will look to achieve around 250.

Thanks to everyone who has responded. This is my first 'big boy' tank so I'm learning as I go.

But you bought yourself a very good UVC sterilizer - something you did right at least

Sincerely Lasse

 

[jasonrusso]

I have a 90gal tank with ~40gal sump. Photo of sump below.

I have purchased a TMC Vecton 600 (25-watt) UV sterilizer.
I got a dedicated pump for it - Eheim CompactON 3000 (792 GPH).

My question is, what is the best compartment to place the pump and return? I was thinking of putting the pump in the skimmer compartment (1st chamber) and returning into the refugium middle chamber)... Is that right? Or would I then be bypassing that water from the skimmer and doing myself a disservice?

Alternative could be putting the pump in the refugium compartment and the return into the compartment with the main return pump but I think that would introduce microbubbles into the return.

Any advice welcome. Sump pictured below.

I also have a Vectron 600, nice unit. I don't run a fuge. I have a Jeabo 3000 in the sump, it goes through 3/4" tubing and the return is in the return pump chamber on the other side of the bubble barrier. I actually tried a small Eheim but the flow was cut down too much.

You want 300gph for maximum level 2 sterilization.

 

[Balanje]

I also have a Vectron 600, nice unit. I don't run a fuge. I have a Jeabo 3000 in the sump, it goes through 3/4" tubing and the return is in the return pump chamber on the other side of the bubble barrier. I actually tried a small Eheim but the flow was cut down too much.

You want 300gph for maximum level 2 sterilization.

Thanks! I’m worried about micro bubbles putting the return in the return pump chamber. Any issues with that? I was thinking of returning it right into that bubble barrier area actually.

How do you like the unit? I’m pretty excited to get it hooked up. It comes Thursday but now my new pump won’t be here until Friday.

 

[jasonrusso]

Thanks! I’m worried about micro bubbles putting the return in the return pump chamber. Any issues with that? I was thinking of returning it right into that bubble barrier area actually.

How do you like the unit? I’m pretty excited to get it hooked up. It comes Thursday but now my new pump won’t be here until Friday.

Funny you mention that. I actually did, but it had nothing to do with the uv. My skimmer (reef octopus xs200) always puts out microbubles. The bubble barrier usually takes care of them, but my UV setup gave them a path around the barrier. Putting women's nylons on the skimmer outlet took care of that. If you put the return under the water, you shouldn't have any issues.

The unit was much bigger than I originally thought. I put it on the outside of the cabinet. In the long run it is probably better when it comes time to change bulbs. The jeabo works well. I got a flow reading with a measuring cup and a stopwatch (with the wife's help). It is just under 300, so if flow slows down from debris it will still be above 250. I remember the people that sell it telling me that 300 was good. If you go too low you are not fully utilizing the capacity. If you go really low, it might overheat. That being said, my heaters don't turn on any more. Maybe because of the additional pump any UV?

Do I like it? It's a hard question to answer. Have I had any parasitic outbreaks, no. I have little to no algae. Is that because of the UV or bio pellets?

I'm glad I have it. I'm sure you read all the articles on TMC's page like I did. It's a top notch unit, not a turbotwist which gives UV a bad reputation when they don't work.

 

[Balanje]

Funny you mention that. I actually did, but it had nothing to do with the uv. My skimmer (reef octopus xs200) always puts out microbubles. The bubble barrier usually takes care of them, but my UV setup gave them a path around the barrier. Putting women's nylons on the skimmer outlet took care of that. If you put the return under the water, you shouldn't have any issues.

The unit was much bigger than I originally thought. I put it on the outside of the cabinet. In the long run it is probably better when it comes time to change bulbs. The jeabo works well. I got a flow reading with a measuring cup and a stopwatch (with the wife's help). It is just under 300, so if flow slows down from debris it will still be above 250. I remember the people that sell it telling me that 300 was good. If you go too low you are not fully utilizing the capacity. If you go really low, it might overheat. That being said, my heaters don't turn on any more. Maybe because of the additional pump any UV?

Do I like it? It's a hard question to answer. Have I had any parasitic outbreaks, no. I have little to no algae. Is that because of the UV or bio pellets?

I'm glad I have it. I'm sure you read all the articles on TMC's page like I did. It's a top notch unit, not a turbotwist which gives UV a bad reputation when they don't work.

Hey guys, just an update here as I’ve got the Vecton 600 installed with Sicce 1.5 pump.

I’m getting about 240 gph through the UVC.

Question, I’m seeing bubbles through the clear elbow at the top... is that normal? It makes a slight gurgling noise. I’ve checked and there are no leaks anywhere...

Here’s a couple of shots of the install and the bubbles

 

[jasonrusso]

I thought the top was supposed to be the inlet. I have mine set up the other way. I could see bubbles before I put the sock over my skimmer outlet, but none since