Valve question

[GiraffeShepherd]

What is everyone using for valves on herbie style overflows? My 125g had dual overflows with gate valves.

Im asking because when I set it up in 2018/2019, I paid $13 each for gate valves on Amazon. When I was researching today for plumbing my 90g that has sat empty for a while, I got a bit of sticker shock to see the cheapest gate valves are $50-75 and going upwards of $115. What happened?

I wouldn't know due to going with gate valves of rip, but how is it tuning a single overflow with ball valves? Dont they have a reputation of seizing/ being hard to manipulate?

I found some metric gate valves on ali express for $10+ shipping. Any chance of making those work with standard pvc?

I know that ultimately this is chump change when it comes to this hobby, but it never hurts to save wherever you can.

Giraffe

 

[Fish Fan]

I don't know what to say, except that gate valves are like heart attack expensive these days. My guess is that they have to be hand assembled, but still....

That said, I don't think you should skimp on these. I am planning a new build, and have already purchased mine. These are really important for a well functioning Herbie or BeanAnimal style overflow, which is highly suggested.

I believe @BeanAnimal was active here on R2R tonight, perhaps he'll see this and have a minute to offer some further advice

Best of luck!

 

[GiraffeShepherd]

I don't know what to say, except that gate valves are like heart attack expensive these days. My guess is that they have to be hand assembled, but still....

That said, I don't think you should skimp on these. I am planning a new build, and have already purchased mine. These are really important for a well functioning Herbie or BeanAnimal style overflow, which is highly suggested.

I believe @BeanAnimal was active here on R2R tonight, perhaps he'll see this and have a minute to offer some further advice

Best of luck!

Heart attack expensive is right! I used to give people a hard time for saying things were cheaper "back in their day," but now i find myself saying "back in my day" more and more. A 4x increase in price is crazy!

 

[UncommonSense]

I would consider a quality Spears 2022 series gate valve to be a investment, considering how many I’ve seen kicking around 2+ decades into service, still functioning like they’re brand new…

Also, they can be rebuilt with a seal kit which is ~$7.50 MSRP (for up to 1”), plus a gate/wedge rebuild kit as-needed!

(given how freakishly expensive gate valves are these days, I recommend getting them in National Pipe Thread [NPT], vs. cemented slip fit… this way, you can reuse them numerous times without getting into drilling out cemented pipe/etc!)

 

[Fish Fan]

Agreed, these valves are beyond pricy these days, but they are a necessary investment for most tanks with overflows. Again, I wouldn't skimp here, despite the cost, it's not worth it

 

[GiraffeShepherd]

I would consider a quality Spears 2022 series gate valve to be a investment, considering how many I’ve seen kicking around 2+ decades into service, still functioning like they’re brand new…

Also, they can be rebuilt with a seal kit which is ~$7.50 MSRP (for up to 1”), plus a gate/wedge rebuild kit as-needed!

(given how freakishly expensive gate valves are these days, I recommend getting the in National Pipe Thread [NPT], vs. cemented slip fit… this way, you can reuse them numerous times without getting into drilling out cemented pipe/etc!)

I like the way you think! The valves i have rocking on the 125 are NDS valves, also threaded with unions directly on either side. Theyre no longer available though :(

 

[GiraffeShepherd]

Agreed, these valves are beyond pricy these days, but they are a necessary investment for most tanks with overflows. Again, I wouldn't skimp here, despite the cost, it's not worth it

Indeed, ill probobly end up going with the spears 2020 series like @UncommonSense mentioned. They made a lot of great points about longevity and rebuildability. :)

 

[UncommonSense]

I like the way you think! The valves i have rocking on the 125 are NDS valves, also threaded with unions directly on either side. Theyre no longer available though :(

Aah, typical!

Well, Spears is usually a solid choice when it comes to the pricier plumbing parts! — you get what you pay for!

As an aside, bulkheads are a bit of a complex topic these days, with the surging prevalence of incredibly cheaply made ABS plastic examples flooding the market (and subsequently flooding people’s homes)…

— if your glass hole diameter(s) on the 90g allow for their oversized diameter, Hayward BFAS series bulkhead fittings are my go-to these days! (Primarily due to build quality, and the long-term investment in replacement gasket availability! — these bulkheads, and the sch. 80 Spears gate valves can easily outlast a tank!)

 

[RobertK]

Yes its crazy how expensive they are now! I'm doing what @UncommonSense suggested and rebuilding my 20 year old Spears gate valve. I also painted the red handle blue to match the blue PVC pipe I'm using!

 

[GiraffeShepherd]

I like the way you think! The valves i have rocking on the 125 are NDS valves, also threaded with unions directly on either side. Theyre no longer available though :(

Aah, typical!

Well, Spears is usually a solid choice when it comes to the pricier plumbing parts! — you get what you pay for!

As an aside, bulkheads are a bit of a complex topic these days, with the surging prevalence of incredibly cheaply made ABS plastic examples flooding the market (and subsequently flooding people’s homes)…

— if your glass hole diameter(s) on the 90g allow for their oversized diameter, Hayward BFAS series bulkhead fittings are my go-to these days! (Primarily due to build quality, and the long-term investment in replacement gasket availability! — these bulkheads, and the sch. 80 Spears gate valves can easily outlast a tank!)

I just checked, the 90g is drilled at 1.75" for both holes. Looking at the Hayward BFAS data sheet, i could probobly squeeze in 3/4" bulkheads.

I dont know the exact measurments in the 125, but i know it has 1" drains and 3/4 returns. Its an old oceanic systems tank, im not sure what was standard in the 90's.

Im a big fan of BIFL items when they can be had.

 

[UncommonSense]

drilled at 1.75" for both holes

Oof, minimum hole diameter for Hayward 1” bulkheads is 1.875” (1-7/8”), sadly…

 

[GiraffeShepherd]

Yes its crazy how expensive they are now! I'm doing what @UncommonSense suggested and rebuilding my 20 year old Spears gate valve. I also painted the red handle blue to match the blue PVC pipe I'm using!

I always like seeing the fancy colors everyone uses in their plumbing. I replumbed my 125 this past weekend, but i just went with off the shelf schedule 40 due to cost, availability, and the fact it was my first time hard plumbing a tank. It had been soft plumbed since i set it up in 2018/2019, but i didnt do a very good job of it.

Im much happier now that its hard plumbed, and its been a lot quieter and easier to balance the overflows.

 

[UncommonSense]

Im much happier now that its hard plumbed, and its been a lot quieter and easier to balance the overflows.

As a bonus, you’re no longer paying the “tubing tax” in flow rates!

— 3/4” sch.40 pipe has an ID of ~7/8”

— 3/4” barbed fittings for tubing have an ID of ~5/8”

 

[RobertK]

I always like seeing the fancy colors everyone uses in their plumbing. I replumbed my 125 this past weekend, but i just went with off the shelf schedule 40 due to cost, availability, and the fact it was my first time hard plumbing a tank. It had been soft plumbed since i set it up in 2018/2019, but i didnt do a very good job of it.

Im much happier now that its hard plumbed, and its been a lot quieter and easier to balance the overflows.

I'm an old medical person, been looking at anatomy drawings all my life. In the drawings the veins are always blue and the arteries red. So in my new tank the drain lines will be blue and the return lines red. A red handle on the drain line gate valve would have ruined that!

 

[GiraffeShepherd]

Im much happier now that its hard plumbed, and its been a lot quieter and easier to balance the overflows.

As a bonus, you’re no longer paying the “tubing tax” in flow rates!

— 3/4” sch.40 pipe has an ID of ~7/8”

— 3/4 barbed fittings for tubing have an ID of ~5/8”

I hadn't evem considered that, my return is still "soft" (not very soft anymore with age) plumbed.

My return goes up over the back of tht tank to a spray bar, but since i have the tank pushed so close to the wall, im not sure i could get pvc to fit.

I do have intentions of replacing the stand, so it will get replaced for sure when that time comes.

 

[GiraffeShepherd]

I always like seeing the fancy colors everyone uses in their plumbing. I replumbed my 125 this past weekend, but i just went with off the shelf schedule 40 due to cost, availability, and the fact it was my first time hard plumbing a tank. It had been soft plumbed since i set it up in 2018/2019, but i didnt do a very good job of it.

Im much happier now that its hard plumbed, and its been a lot quieter and easier to balance the overflows.

I'm an old medical person, been looking at anatomy drawings all my life. In the drawings the veins are always blue and the arteries red. So in my new tank the drain lines will be blue and the return lines red. A red handle on the drain line gate valve would have ruined that!

Oooooh! I like the theme! Id love to see pics when its done!

 

[UncommonSense]

My return goes up over the back of tht tank to a spray bar, but since i have the tank pushed so close to the wall, im not sure i could get pvc to fit.

You could always check with a length of spare pipe? — it should be 1.050” OD, very similar to 3/4” ID tubing with 1/8” wall thickness (especially if there’s a barbed fitting behind the tank, making the tube expand to a greater OD!)

The pipe can be one continuous run from cabinet back to tank rim… then, a few elbows over the rim!

 

[Mebbid]

What is everyone using for valves on herbie style overflows? My 125g had dual overflows with gate valves.

Im asking because when I set it up in 2018/2019, I paid $13 each for gate valves on Amazon. When I was researching today for plumbing my 90g that has sat empty for a while, I got a bit of sticker shock to see the cheapest gate valves are $50-75 and going upwards of $115. What happened?

I wouldn't know due to going with gate valves of rip, but how is it tuning a single overflow with ball valves? Dont they have a reputation of seizing/ being hard to manipulate?

I found some metric gate valves on ali express for $10+ shipping. Any chance of making those work with standard pvc?

I know that ultimately this is chump change when it comes to this hobby, but it never hurts to save wherever you can.

Giraffe

On the bright side, you only need 1 gate valve. That's probably not the place I would look at saving money on however.

The adjustments on the sears gate valve I have are soo fine that I can imagine it'd be a nightmare trying to tune my bean animal overflow with a ball valve.

 

[GiraffeShepherd]

My return goes up over the back of tht tank to a spray bar, but since i have the tank pushed so close to the wall, im not sure i could get pvc to fit.

You could always check with a length of spare pipe? — it should be 1.050” OD, very similar to 3/4” ID tubing with 1/8” wall thickness (especially if there’s a barbed fitting behind the tank, making the tube expand to a greater OD!)

The pipe can be one continuous run from cabinet back to tank rim… then, a few elbows over the rim!

I just checked, its pretty tight, about 1.25" at the narrowest point, the windowsill, so it would probobly work. Dont worry, there are blackout curtains between the tank and the window.

Ill put it on my to do list, might take some experimentation. I have some concerns about assembly and access, paricularly whether or not i could find a way to fit a union at the spray bar. Its 4' long and i really dont want to take the hood off the tank unless i have to and i have little interest in trying to glue pvc directly above the water column im certain its doable, just afraid to commit

Until recently, ive been very much of the mindset of "if it aint broke, dont fix it."

Heck, ive never touched the return as it is, i only just cleaned the pump for the first time in 7 years, and thats only because i was cleaning and rearranging the sump so that i could properly utilize my skimmer.

Youve given me a lot to think about! Im glad i signed up to this forum!

Many thanks!