Vegetable filters & Triton Method

[Subsea]

I just did watch a BRStv video on Triton Method. I think I have been doing this for 25 years, but I think I called it “Minimalist Method”

 

[Subsea]

What is high tech about algae? @hart24601 , @Lasse @SantaMonica

Because of photosynthesis, algae combines the inorganic world with the organic world. In general, algae absorbs inorganic nitrogen and phosphorous in the ratio of 30:1. During photosynthesis, carbon dioxide gas combines with water to produce carbonic acid which combines with carbonate alkalinity to produce bicarbonate alkalinity which is assimilated into algae biomass as glucose, which is carbon for the reef. Macro algae combines carbon/nitrogen/phosphorous in the ratio of 560/30/1. During photosynthesis, both macro algae and coral leak DOC into the water column. DOC can combine in thousands of ways. Some doc feeds corals and some doc feeds bacteria. Bacteria are food for filter feeders. It sounds like a food web that feeds itself and everything else.

 

[Lasse]

Yes

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Scrubber_steve]

After this discussion https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/a...roteins-carbohydrates-and-metabolites.359116/ I decided to do some testing & came up with a method to greatly reduce the amount of exudate leaking from the ulva growing in my algae scrubber into the aquarium water. The test was to see what, if any difference it made to the condition of the inhabitants in my mixed reef. It made no difference at all it seems, except to the sponges I was attempting to establish in my cryptic zone. They all dissappeared.

 

[Sallstrom]

Soon Triton Lab will start testing DOC, "key nitrogen compounds and extended alkalinity". Just ordered test vials
Haven't had the time to do any research on the tests yet, but will be great fun trying out!
https://www.triton.de/en/articles/triton-n-doc/

 

[teller]

Hi @Scrubber_steve, can you elaborate what method you managed to reduce the exudate from macro ulva algae?
Thanks

 

[teller]

Hi @Subsea, do you usually dose any kind of nitrogen source?
What about trace elements? Do you dose any iron, manganese, iodine, etc?
Thanks

 

[Scrubber_steve]

Hi @Scrubber_steve, can you elaborate what method you managed to reduce the exudate from macro ulva algae?
Thanks

Do you run an algae scrubber ?

 

[teller]

Do you run an algae scrubber ?

No algae scrubber. Just a macro algae refugium with Chaeto. Next year I will add ulva.

 

[Scrubber_steve]

No algae scrubber. Just a macro algae refugium with Chaeto. Next year I will add ulva.

The method I devised is specific to algae scrubbers; sorry.

 

[Subsea]

Hi @Subsea, do you usually dose any kind of nitrogen source?
What about trace elements? Do you dose any iron, manganese, iodine, etc?
Thanks

I dose iron & iodine once a week and ammonia every day.

 

[Subsea]

After this discussion https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/a...roteins-carbohydrates-and-metabolites.359116/ I decided to do some testing & came up with a method to greatly reduce the amount of exudate leaking from the ulva growing in my algae scrubber into the aquarium water. The test was to see what, if any difference it made to the condition of the inhabitants in my mixed reef. It made no difference at all it seems, except to the sponges I was attempting to establish in my cryptic zone. They all dissappeared.

I read the entire thread and learned from the discussion. In one of the post, methods to increase macro exudate was discussed. I can envision several ways to increase DOC with two of the most obvious being tumble culture and either increase photoperiod or intensity.

Please expound on how you decreased exudates from Ulva.

 

[Subsea]

After this discussion https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/a...roteins-carbohydrates-and-metabolites.359116/ I decided to do some testing & came up with a method to greatly reduce the amount of exudate leaking from the ulva growing in my algae scrubber into the aquarium water. The test was to see what, if any difference it made to the condition of the inhabitants in my mixed reef. It made no difference at all it seems, except to the sponges I was attempting to establish in my cryptic zone. They all dissappeared.

Are sponges necessarily good? I can’t prove that they are helping my system. I can say that I have a Chili Coral for 11 months living in cryptic refugium that had neither target feed or broadcast feed until one month ago. I do feed live black mussels everyday and can see an immediate feeding response in several differrent NPS as well as Sea Apple.

 

[Scrubber_steve]

I read the entire thread and learned from the discussion. In one of the post, methods to increase macro exudate was discussed. I can envision several ways to increase DOC with two of the most obvious being tumble culture and either increase photoperiod or intensity.

Please expound on how you decreased exudates from Ulva.

OK; so two separate issues concerning exudate caught my eye.

The first was a paper I read concerning ulva in tidal zones. Ulva only leaks about 5% of its assimilated nutrients & co2 back into the water as exudate. Of course it’s a fast metabolising algae & assimilates a lot of nutrients/co2 in a given time period compared to the slower growing algae types & this is why Ulva is ideal for aquarium filtration. What the researchers found was, Ulva exposed to the air at low tide became partially desiccated. When the tide rose & the Ulva was re-hydrated it caused stress, & this stress caused the Ulva to leak exudate at a far higher volume than normal, for a period of around 15 minutes. Also, if the partially desiccated Ulva was re-hydrated with rain water, or fresh water to be exact, this increased leakage would last for around 30 minutes. Interestingly, fresh water species of Ulva have a naturally higher exudate leakage than salt water species.
Anyhow, stress plays a large role in the percentage of exudate an algae leaks.

The second issue concerning exudate was some comments I read of Dana Riddle’s, here on this forum, concerning his coral propagation farm he ran in the 90s. Dana’s a proponent of algae filtration, & he used the old school Adey horizontal screen algae turf scrubbers using true turf algae. Dana noted that after he scrapped the excess algae off the growth screens once a week, then rinsed them off under fresh water & then placed the screens back into the system, quote “The protein skimmers would overflow for hours after these cleanings “end quote.

Cleaning, or scraping the excess algae off the growth screens stressed the algae because the strands are torn apart. Then the remaining algae on the screen leaked a lot of exudate into the system, & the skimmers were reacting to this & attempting to remove it.

So, my method to reduce the volume of exudate leaked from the ulva growing on my scrubber screens over a period of time is simply to place the scrapped/cleaned growth screen into a separate container of aquarium water for 15 to 30 minutes prior to replacing it into the system.
I have named this method DB-SCM – Dissolved Organic Compounds Bleeding - Screen Cleaning Method ....LOL

As I already stated - I did not observe any changes, positive or negative, in the condition of the corals in my tank since using this method. There was no change in algae growth on the scrubber screen either. The only possible negative was the sponges I had in my cryptic zone disappeared, possibly via having a major food source significantly reduced?

 

[Scrubber_steve]

Are sponges necessarily good? I can’t prove that they are helping my system. I can say that I have a Chili Coral for 11 months living in cryptic refugium that had neither target feed or broadcast feed until one month ago. I do feed live black mussels everyday and can see an immediate feeding response in several differrent NPS as well as Sea Apple.

I mainly set up a cryptic zone / sponges, to replace GAC. Its also very interesting. You & Tyree haved looked much further into any other benifits of cryptic sponges than me. What do you think?

 

[Subsea]

@Scrubber_steve
Without a doubt, I see benefit with cryptic refugium, particularly with respect to supporting NPS and other filter feeders. I have not used GAC in 11 months. I see this as a good thing. I see DOC as food for bacteria. Bacteria produce amino acids from animal and plant protein.

However, in my observations, I think that cryptic refugium weakness is nutrient management. My 25 year mature mixed garden processes all nutrients it is feed so cryptic refugium is never taxed with nutrient management. It is my opinion, that both cryptic refugium and macro refugium are not only compatible but complimentary.

 

[Subsea]

@Scrubber_steve

While I have not used ATS or Chaeto reactor, I would think the DOC chemistry is the same in all three. Any thoughts?

 

[Subsea]

Anyhow, stress plays a large role in the percentage of exudate an algae leaks.

Cleaning, or scraping the excess algae off the growth screens stressed the algae because the strands are torn apart. Then the remaining algae on the screen leaked a lot of exudate into the system, & the skimmers were reacting to this & attempting to remove it.

So, my method to reduce the volume of exudate leaked from the ulva growing on my scrubber screens over a period of time is simply to place the scrapped/cleaned growth screen into a separate container of aquarium water for 15 to 30 minutes prior to replacing it into the system.
I have named this method DB-SCM – Dissolved Organic Compounds Bleeding - Screen Cleaning Method ....LOL

@Scrubber_steve

I so much follow the process, necessity is the mother of invention. After reading what you do with Ulva to reduce leakage into tank by transferring it to a holding container, reminds me that one man’s garbage is another man’s treasure. @Jomama grows NPS corals in Southern California. One of his phytoplankton formulas for Dendronephthya uses Chaeto purée that he calls joma juice.

 

[Scrubber_steve]

@Scrubber_steve

While I have not used ATS or Chaeto reactor, I would think the DOC chemistry is the same in all three. Any thoughts?

It will depend somewhat on the type of algae used & how much DOC any of them exude under normal circumstances. Then any increase in exuded organics above normal will depend on what stress factors each method imparts on the algae.

I don’t believe the exudates from the common, fast metabolising green algae species such as Ulva or Chaeto are detrimental to aquarium inhabitants at all in any way. More probably they are “useful” & probably beneficial. The exudate is easily removed by skimming or GAS & water changes in any case if that is what one desires. And the algae are kept isolated from the display so coral/algae physical contact is out of the question also.

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

Anyhow, stress plays a large role in the percentage of exudate an algae leaks.

Cleaning, or scraping the excess algae off the growth screens stressed the algae because the strands are torn apart. Then the remaining algae on the screen leaked a lot of exudate into the system, & the skimmers were reacting to this & attempting to remove it.

So, my method to reduce the volume of exudate leaked from the ulva growing on my scrubber screens over a period of time is simply to place the scrapped/cleaned growth screen into a separate container of aquarium water for 15 to 30 minutes prior to replacing it into the system.
I have named this method DB-SCM – Dissolved Organic Compounds Bleeding - Screen Cleaning Method ....LOL

@Scrubber_steve

I so much follow the process, necessity is the mother of invention. After reading what you do with Ulva to reduce leakage into tank by transferring it to a holding container, reminds me that one man’s garbage is another man’s treasure. @Jomama grows NPS corals in Southern California. One of his phytoplankton formulas for Dendronephthya uses Chaeto purée that he calls joma juice.

Actually @Lasse called it Jomama Juice, I just ran with it.