Warning to others.

[Notsolostfish]

Charbel101........
You are very confusing to talk to also.

You have said, you have 1 meter to check TDS.
Then you say you have one after membrane and one after di. My math tells me that is two TDS meters.
Then the last statement you said you have one after the di.

Which is it???
Do you have 1? Do you have 2? Do you have one with two check spots like I showed you from Amazon?

I'm really trying to help but tell us what you own. I would not want you to buy another thing you don't need.

In my water production I have a dual and a tri meter.
I can check before the membrane, after the membrane, before the DI mixed bed and after the DI mixed bed. I still have a spare. I use that one after my anion and cation stages.

I have one that already came in built in on my 6 stage rodi unit. Its the same one u linked. My brs unit 6 stage is 1 year old.

 

[Dburr1014]

I have one that already came in built in on my 6 stage rodi unit. Its the same one u linked. My brs unit 6 stage is 1 year old.

I'm going to go out in a limb and say, I don't think you're tds meter is bad.

I think we're going down the rabbit's hole. I think your whole problem starting when somebody told you to raise your po4.
I'm pretty sure the only thing you need right now is tenacity. No white lights, manually pull, if some of the rocks can come out H2O2. If you don't know what any of that means hit the search button on the top right corner. There's a lot of info on this website.

 

[BigTimeIssues]

I agree with you. Don't chase a number.. however dosing up phosphate wasn't a horrible idea.. sometimes bad things happen. My tank is 5 months old now and I've had coral since 1.5 months in. I have some diatoms at times but thats it. My goal was to dose several different brands of bacteria product, I got live rock from my LFS and left it in the dark for the first 5 or so weeks. And added pods from 2 or 3 different companies about 5 different occasions.

My phos was naturally high at first but now it's in the butter zone.

My refuge is growing all kinds of hair algae, red algae and cheato. I think the addition of all the cultures of bacteria along with the cope pod clean up crews really helped me along.. but I have no proof.

Hate you are having a hard time. Stay with it. It will get better.

 

[Tamberav]

hes got a whole tank full of algae,, his N and P are not possibly at Zero.

I am not sure you read his post?

It was 0 before the algae... he dosed bottled phosphate and nitrate to bring it up and then got algae which is a fairly normal result in a young tank started with dry rock.

"So the devil played with my mind, and i bought neophos, and neonitro."

Right on his first post.

 

[Dburr1014]

Want to show you some pics
My water making filters.
I have those checkers all over.
I'm not confident you have yours in the right spot so these pictures show you how they are all over. After the membrane before the membrane before the mixed bed resin after the mixed bed resin. You need to have them in a certain spot so you know if your filters are good or bad and what they are doing.
And that digital little box that they're connected to, there's a switch, you can check one or you can check two that's why the switch is there, did you know this?

 

[Eric R.]

My main issue is the 'chemicals are bad' ideaology. What do you think food, water, fish, corals, etc. are made of? It is a ridiculous statement that I see on here often (and in many industries) made by those who have no understanding of the basic chemistry of the world, or simply don't want to learn. It is a foolish notion with no sound reasoning behind it.

Also, numbers are fine to target. The saying "don't chase numbers" is just a catchy phrase that is used when someone doesn't understand why a test value should be in a particular range, or when someone wants to justify their laziness. It is an irrisponsible statement that always annoys me when I see it. No one is saying you can't have variations in a test value, or that you need an exact value for each parameter. You just want things in a certain range, not just for the known issues that arise when the values are very far off from optimal, but that, in order to tell what is wrong with a tank (be that algae, fish, coral health, etc.) we need to standardize the common parameters of a tank. If not, no one can help you as you would be introducing too many variable if you just say "I don't test because targeting certain values is bad." In order to diagnose a problem, you need to eliminate variables that could be a cause of an issue. When everything is within the right range, you can assume with a fair amount of confidence that the issue at hand is not from a value drifting outside of a healthy range.

When I, and some others, say don't chase numbers, it's short hand for don't do things to your tank because you find a number that's outside of a specific range without justification for doing so, and a good understanding of why. Also, an awareness that sometimes the numbers we get back from tests are wrong, or maybe we don't really understand how that number relates to the issue we're experiencing. Part of this I think stems from the assumption that all tanks should share relatively similar values (maybe the range we're looking at is too narrow), or that those numbers should be close to what we see on a reef. Our little glass or acrylic boxes are different from natural reefs.

 

[Eienna]

 

[njreefkeeper]

I just want this video to be warning for other newbies starting out. I started this hobby 7 months ago, i got excited finished the cycled, added fish, and started immediately with lps corals. I was happy about my gear, so i immediately was replacing socks, breaking in my nyos 120, and all the fun along with it. Till one day i started seeing a little bit of dinos on the sand. So i was worried about cyano, and after effect of it. At this time my corals were pretty happy, so i came to this server, and asked about my algae, and the first thing i got "whats your phosphate, and nitrate" at that time i didnt have a hanna checker for those, so i immediately bought one, and my nitrate, and phosphate were both at 0.

So the first thing this server told me was A) feed more B) buy a brightwell neophos & neo nitro.

As a guy who does not like any sort of chemicals in his tank. I started feeding more. But that didnt bring my nutrienrs up at all. Keep in mind at this time my algae wasnt bad at all.

So the devil played with my mind, and i bought neophos, and neonitro.

I started dosing those, the dinos went away not gonna lie. But iv had cyano on some parts of my sand. It wasnt extending, but it wasnt going away. It was ticking off my rock anemone, my corals were pretty ticked off. So a reefer with "experience" told me yes dose your phosphate to 0.1 as 0.06 is low to your nitrate 5.6 and when you reach 0.1 for phosphate your algae will go away. So i started double dosing phosphate. And here iam the tank is completely covered in all sorts of algae, dinos, cyanos, green cyano,a lot of green hair algae. And all of my corals either bailing out, or dying.

Moral of the story here. Never chase a number, and let your tank do its thing. Chasing numbers are not good, and i wish i listened earlier. Never buy corals immediately neverrr. And im not saying wait a year to buy corals, just wait enough for your tank to stabilize, and your nutrients are not in the low 0s.

The video doesnt do the tank justice on how bad the algae is in my tank rn

February 7, 2023

youtube.com

My mag is 1315
Alk:7.5(was 8.5 before)
Calcium:420
Salinity:1.026

As a 20+ year veteran of reefkeeping, I’ve seen it all. Even when live rock was the only rock available, most played by the rule of “wait close to a year before the tank settles in and you start seeing coralline on the glass before adding coral.” Now that we’re left with dry rock, it’s at least a year before I feel a tank can safely handle corals that are much more expensive today (comparatively) than then. That being said, the desire for “insta-reef” is strong these days…no doubt a parallel with Instagram.
Rush it…pay the price.

As for the whole nutrient debate, I’m torn. I feel there’s much more to it than “you can’t have zero nitrates and phosphates”. I feel some people need to be told that because they simply don’t feed enough. They’re afraid of algae and what many not familiar would call a dirty tank. Pristine and clean doesn’t exist on wild reefs. But yes…you can be reading zero and have a gorgeous reef tank. It’s more about being able to process those nutrients and export them than having a holy grail number to strive for. Some people feed heavily, have zero detectable nutrients and their corals are thriving…but I’ve found those reefers tend to have an impeccable maintenance routine, feed much more than many may think and resist the need to tinker. Others keep nutrients detectable and achieve the same results.

One thing I’ve found is that the hobby is most enjoyable for me when I treat a system like a fish tank the first year as it goes through it’s inevitable hiccups of dinoflagellates, diatoms, Cyanobacteria, green algae phases and ultimately just settles in and does its thing.

Things I’ve learned over 20+ years:

1. More fish and feedings will always trump trying to balance nutrients with bottled potions.
2. As your tank and corals mature, you’ll need to feed more.
3. A green dusting on the glass every few days is not a dirty tank, but a sign that your tank is healthy.
4. Don’t chase numbers. Instead, have an acceptable range for each parameter. Pay attention to trends upwards and downwards for each parameter. If the tank looks better with a number outside your acceptable range, then maybe you’re wrong and the tank will do better there.
5. Treat your reef like a large ocean tanker. Never overcorrect the ship swiftly. Slowly nudge it back with small adjustments.
6. It’s always better to underlight than overlight a coral.
7. Long acclimation of corals sitting at the bottom of the tank ( a month or more) will always produce better results than “stick and pray.”
8. You’ll always be chasing your next pest. Embrace it. There’s no such thing as “one day I’ll get to cruise control.” Even on wild reefs (with a stability we’ll never achieve in captivity), algae phases come and go, and some corals sometimes die. And yes…most times it’s unfortunately that expensive one that goes first. Don’t start correcting everything when 99% of the tank looks great.
9. Knowing your tank and its unique nuances with daily observation is much more valuable than anything you’ll learn from an ICP test. ICP tests are like a home inspection. Not everything needs to be “fixed” or needs immediate attention. A sense of urgency in a product and relying on that product is a great marketing plan for customer retention.
10. Water changes work and can fix a lot of problems, but most importantly, a sound water change routine will help stave off many issues. The “no water change club” isn’t a badge of honor. In all my years, I’ve seen a lot of tanks. No water change aficionados are mostly veterans, and admittedly, their tanks would look better with more water changes.
11. Be a STICKLER for your source water. Provide the cleanest RODI you can. Change sediment and carbon filters before they look disgusting…not after you’re reading 001 TDS and already allowed a lot of pollutants into your system. Your DI will last much longer if your sediment and carbon are changed more frequently. People will spend thousands on corals and neglect the source of the most abundant element in their tank…water.
12. Resist the need to fill your tank with gadgets. Having a gizmo for every possible thing and relying on equipment to do things that take less than 5 minutes a day for you to do yourself is playing with Murphy’s Law. If you have the time to do something yourself, always choose that route over automation. It will physically put you in tune with the daily heartbeat of your tank. This hobby is much more enjoyable when you can come home from work and observe your livestock instead of checking to see if all the gadgets are humming along.

Welcome to reefkeeping.

 

[Eric R.]

As a 20+ year veteran of reefkeeping, I’ve seen it all. Even when live rock was the only rock available, most played by the rule of “wait close to a year before the tank settles in and you start seeing coralline on the glass before adding coral.” Now that we’re left with dry rock, it’s at least a year before I feel a tank can safely handle corals that are much more expensive today (comparatively) than then. That being said, the desire for “insta-reef” is strong these days…no doubt a parallel with Instagram.
Rush it…pay the price.

As for the whole nutrient debate, I’m torn. I feel there’s much more to it than “you can’t have zero nitrates and phosphates”. I feel some people need to be told that because they simply don’t feed enough. They’re afraid of algae and what many not familiar would call a dirty tank. Pristine and clean doesn’t exist on wild reefs. But yes…you can be reading zero and have a gorgeous reef tank. It’s more about being able to process those nutrients and export them than having a holy grail number to strive for. Some people feed heavily, have zero detectable nutrients and their corals are thriving…but I’ve found those reefers tend to have an impeccable maintenance routine, feed much more than many may think and resist the need to tinker. Others keep nutrients detectable and achieve the same results.

One thing I’ve found is that the hobby is most enjoyable for me when I treat a system like a fish tank the first year as it goes through it’s inevitable hiccups of dinoflagellates, diatoms, Cyanobacteria, green algae phases and ultimately just settles in and does its thing.

Things I’ve learned over 20+ years:

1. More fish and feedings will always trump trying to balance nutrients with bottled potions.
2. As your tank and corals mature, you’ll need to feed more.
3. A green dusting on the glass every few days is not a dirty tank, but a sign that your tank is healthy.
4. Don’t chase numbers. Instead, have an acceptable range for each parameter. Pay attention to trends upwards and downwards for each parameter. If the tank looks better with a number outside your acceptable range, then maybe you’re wrong and the tank will do better there.
5. Treat your reef like a large ocean tanker. Never overcorrect the ship swiftly. Slowly nudge it back with small adjustments.
6. It’s always better to underlight than overlight a coral.
7. Long acclimation of corals sitting at the bottom of the tank ( a month or more) will always produce better results than “stick and pray.”
8. You’ll always be chasing your next pest. Embrace it. There’s no such thing as “one day I’ll get to cruise control.” Even on wild reefs (with a stability we’ll never achieve in captivity), algae phases come and go, and some corals sometimes die. And yes…most times it’s unfortunately that expensive one that goes first. Don’t start correcting everything when 99% of the tank looks great.
9. Knowing your tank and its unique nuances with daily observation is much more valuable than anything you’ll learn from an ICP test. ICP tests are like a home inspection. Not everything needs to be “fixed” or needs immediate attention. A sense of urgency in a product and relying on that product is a great marketing plan for customer retention.
10. Water changes work and can fix a lot of problems, but most importantly, a sound water change routine will help stave off many issues. The “no water change club” isn’t a badge of honor. In all my years, I’ve seen a lot of tanks. No water change aficionados are mostly veterans, and admittedly, their tanks would look better with more water changes.
11. Be a STICKLER for your source water. Provide the cleanest RODI you can. Change sediment and carbon filters before they look disgusting…not after you’re reading 001 TDS and already allowed a lot of pollutants into your system. Your DI will last much longer if your sediment and carbon are changed more frequently. People will spend thousands on corals and neglect the source of the most abundant element in their tank…water.
12. Resist the need to fill your tank with gadgets. Having a gizmo for every possible thing and relying on equipment to do things that take less than 5 minutes a day for you to do yourself is playing with Murphy’s Law. If you have the time to do something yourself, always choose that route over automation. It will physically put you in tune with the daily heartbeat of your tank. This hobby is much more enjoyable when you can come home from work and observe your livestock instead of checking to see if all the gadgets are humming along.

Welcome to reefkeeping.

Sound advice!

 

[KStatefan]

Alright one last question so i can comprehend all of this.

The first tds meter where do i place it? On the first pic the link i did mark or the second pic?

It looks like you already have a dual sensor TDS meter. The in sensor will measure the tds of the water coming from your membrane.

 

[Eienna]

 

[Garf]

I have one that already came in built in on my 6 stage rodi unit. Its the same one u linked. My brs unit 6 stage is 1 year old.

To me, the tank just needs some gardening done on it. Autopilot normally kicks in when tanks are mature, even then, we have to get our elbows wet occasionally.

 

[Eienna]

So...first of all...the guy that said .7 told you to go waaay too high. You just need to get over zero and *wait.* It takes time for the other organisms to outcompete the dinos. It was way too much, way too fast. They also require manual removal of as much as you can, every day you can. UV can be helpful for certain species of dinos. This approach can take several weeks to effect a full cure. .7 *might* have been gotten away with were your tank more mature, but it did not have the biology set up to handle that level.
That's what I'm learning, anyway.

 

[Cell]

Seems like you posted with a very specific complaint and that you realized the error of your ways ie. listening to every single person pulling you in different directions, yet you then proceeded to allow yourself to be pulled in different directions within this thread.

You seem to have a dual TDS meter set up properly. I think there is like one person who is questioning the accuracy because your tap water is abnormally clean, which is not out of the realm of possibility. If you think your meter may be faulty, by a cheap TDS pen and verify. They are $10-15 on Amazon. Or you can just replace the dual TDS meter for $30 from BRS.

There is no true optimal number that applies to everyone. There are suitable ranges and optimal numbers for a particular tank, but they are all different. Go watch Melev Reefs Reef diary from last year. Marc had a beautiful tank running and decided he wanted to deal with his high nitrate/phosphate. He ended up crashing the tank and losing a bunch of coral trying to reach those numbers.

 

[mijan]

I am not sure you read his post?

It was 0 before the algae... he dosed bottled phosphate and nitrate to bring it up and then got algae which is a fairly normal result in a young tank started with dry rock.

"So the devil played with my mind, and i bought neophos, and neonitro."

Right on his first post.

Spot on. First post stated he was given advice to raise his PO. When it wasnt going up fast enough he started to double dose phosphate. Instead of manually removing the algae and using a stiff bristled brush to scrub his rocks he is being sent down a rabbit hole messing with his RODI even though he has said his TDS is measuring 0 currently.

The problem here isn’t his equipment or some new gadget he needs to buy. The problem is with his basic husbandry. You don’t dump what is essentially fertilizer into a tank a few months old and just entering its ugly phase.

Just because your tank has cycled doesn’t mean it is stable. That can take up to a year. Besides doing regular water changes you should not be dosing anything.

 

[((FORDTECH))]

All this over a dual in-line TDS meter lol

 

[((FORDTECH))]

They cost $19 guys OP should’ve just bought one in the very beginning after the first two or three posts

 

[((FORDTECH))]

I think I have three spares with my spare sediment carbon and membranes because they go bad and need to be replaced

 

[4FordFamily]

Let's keep this on topic and remove emotion from the equation.

 

[Eienna]

Question. You had/have dinos, right? Do you use algae for filtration, like chaeto or caulerpa? It just hit me that the timing's about right...the algae may have stripped your iron. I'd recommend getting an ICP done to check. That can cause dino issues because the competing organisms need iron to do their thing.