Weird Zoa behavior

[bcarl77]

Having some zoas starting to act up recently... Some colonies are growing great, others have started cupping upwards on the skirt and mouth is raise with weird coloration. All other corals SPS and LPS are doing great. Water parameters: SG: 1.025 KH:8.7, Calcium 425, mg, 1250, Nitrate 12-16, Phos: .15. Started dosing aminos 2 weeks ago (brightwell) and feed reefroids 3-4 times ago. Also started 4 drops of lugols solution (110 gallons). Not sure if its a light issue or something else.

 

[CuzzA]

I would not be dosing iodine.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/

Iodine​

I do not presently dose iodine to my aquarium, and do not recommend that others necessarily do so either. Iodine dosing is much more complicated than dosing other ions due to its substantial number of different naturally existing forms, the number of different forms that aquarists actually dose, the fact that all of these forms can interconvert in reef aquaria, and the fact that the available test kits detect only a subset of the total forms present. This complexity, coupled with the fact that no commonly kept reef aquarium species are known to require significant iodine, suggests that dosing is unnecessary and problematic.​

​

For these reasons, I advise aquarists to NOT try to maintain a specific iodine concentration using supplementation and test kits.​

​

Iodine in the ocean exists in a wide variety of forms, both organic and inorganic, and the iodine cycles between these various compounds are very complex and are still an area of active research. The nature of inorganic iodine in the oceans has been generally known for decades. The two predominate forms are iodate (IO3-) and iodide (I-). Together these two iodine species usually add up to about 0.06 ppm total iodine, but the reported values vary by a factor of about two. In surface seawater, iodate usually dominates, with typical values in the range of 0.04 to 0.06 ppm iodine. Likewise, iodide is usually present at lower concentrations, typically 0.01 to 0.02 ppm iodine.​

Organic forms of iodine are any in which the iodine atom is covalently attached to a carbon atom, such as methyl iodide, CH3I. The concentrations of these organic forms (of which there are many different molecules) are only now becoming recognized by oceanographers. In some coastal areas, organic forms can comprise up to 40% of the total iodine, so many previous reports of negligible levels of organoiodine compounds may be incorrect.​

​

The primary organisms in reef aquaria that "use" iodine, at least as far as are known in the scientific literature, are algae (both micro and macro). My experiments with Caulerpa racemosa and Chaetomorpha sp. suggest that iodide additions do not increase the growth rate of these macroalgae, which are commonly used in refugia.​

Finally, for those interested in dosing iodine, I suggest that iodide is the most appropriate form for dosing. Iodide is more readily used by some organisms than is iodate, and it is detected by both currently available iodine test kits (Seachem and Salifert).​

 

[bcarl77]

That article is 15 years old, and a lot of people do dose it regularly....

 

[bcarl77]

The other very weird thing about this is I cannot grow Chaeto at all. I am using a Kessil 160, partially turned down each night for about 8 hours. Melts away every single time.

 

[bcarl77]

Anyone?

 

[Thespammailaccount]

What is your current iodine level?

 

[danschoenherr]

By what you are describing, that is the "umbrella effect". I don't think anyone has come up with a cause for this. I have been heavy into zoas the last 5 years or so, and have had my fair share of issues. With the umbrella issue, I've noticed that it does not affect all colonies or frags in a system, will occur in different areas of a tank or frag rack and usually does go away with no adverse affects. This may take a while to return to normal. I will be posting another problem that I am having that may dovetail in with this one.
As for the iodine levels, I am a firm believer that tanks with a large population of zoas, palys and other softies can deplete the iodine level pretty quickly between water changes, especially for those don't do frequent water changes in their tanks.
I have dosed Lugols straight into the tank at times, but due to the cost, I use the iodate, which I have read is safer. I save the Lugols for my post fragging soak before returning to the tank. I also read the home testing for iodine is not that accurate. I hope to do an ICP test soon to check levels to see how I am doing, but by the looks of my frag tank.....I'm doing pretty good.

 

[CuzzA]

That article is 15 years old, and a lot of people do dose it regularly....

Very well, let's ask the man who wrote it. @Randy Holmes-Farley I'd be curious to know if he holds the same position. I don't know anyone who doses iodine.

Do you have data or information that conflicts with the article? I don't believe there's enough people dosing iodine to even provide us with anecdotal evidence that it is essential or even helpful. But if true and there's new data it would be great to learn something new.

 

[danschoenherr]

I just remembered something about the "umbrella affect".......
The only thing that I remember doing prior to this happening to a few of my frags recently, was that I had just added a fresh bag of carbon to my sump. I don't "run" carbon in my tanks, I just use a fresh bag every 2 or 3 months to maybe pull any built up toxins and metals. That may just be in my head or snake oil stuff I've read, but I do it. The one byproduct is clearer water for a short period of time. That would increase the par for that period of time also. So, maybe some zoas are just reacting to that short increase in par.
Curious if anyone else has noticed this......or if it was just a cooincidence.

 

[Thespammailaccount]

I would not recommend dosing anything you are not actively testing for

 

[Thespammailaccount]

The other very weird thing about this is I cannot grow Chaeto at all. I am using a Kessil 160, partially turned down each night for about 8 hours. Melts away every single time.

What is your iron level? Chaeto does well when iron is within range

 

[bcarl77]

I just remembered something about the "umbrella affect".......
The only thing that I remember doing prior to this happening to a few of my frags recently, was that I had just added a fresh bag of carbon to my sump. I don't "run" carbon in my tanks, I just use a fresh bag every 2 or 3 months to maybe pull any built up toxins and metals. That may just be in my head or snake oil stuff I've read, but I do it. The one byproduct is clearer water for a short period of time. That would increase the par for that period of time also. So, maybe some zoas are just reacting to that short increase in par.
Curious if anyone else has noticed this......or if it was just a cooincidence.

Interesting.... I have run carbon from day 1. Changed every 4-6 weeks. Some other zoas are still growing like crazy. PAR increase is an interesting thought though.

 

[bcarl77]

What is your current iodine level?

ICP test is being sent out tomorrow. I agree that hobby test kits seem to be spotty.

What is your iron level? Chaeto does well when iron is within range

Was planning to send one out prior to the zoas, used to grow tons of Chaeto in my other tank. Ulva seems to do okay but still a slow grower.

 

[bcarl77]

What is odd is I have a nice plug of scrambled eggs on a frag rack only a few inches away from the main colony on the rock. The ones on the frag rack (Maybe 4-5inches higher) are suffering.

I have moved the frag rack to a lower spot but others have started to suffer. Could it be a lighting issue?

 

[CuzzA]

Usually the answer is starting right at us. When I re read your post you started three new things, right? Iodine, aminos and Reef Roids. The effects of what we change in our systems are usually delayed. Nevertheless, I choose iodine as the likely culprit because of those three new things that is the one that isn't well understood. Perhaps stop the iodine and see if things go back to normal. Process of elimination.

 

[bcarl77]

I just find it odd that it is literally only zoanthids. All other SPS, LPS mushrooms, leathers etc all showing great PE. Only other thing that was tweaked was I used to dese sodium bicarb as my 2 part with calcium chloride and switched it to dose proper soda ash. pH went up a little bit, tops at 8.45 and bottoms at 8.3, therefore stopped using soda lime as a Co2 scrubber.

 

[bcarl77]

Still anxiously awaiting ICP results. Temporarily stopped the Lugols dosing and dosing Red Sea Trace Colors. No improvement at all, and other colonies starting to deteriorate. SPS and LPS happy as ever.....

Given the struggle with Chaeto, my gut says its either Iodine, Potassium or Iron.... Waiting for the ICP to confirm.

 

[Thespammailaccount]

Still anxiously awaiting ICP results. Temporarily stopped the Lugols dosing and dosing Red Sea Trace Colors. No improvement at all, and other colonies starting to deteriorate. SPS and LPS happy as ever.....

Given the struggle with Chaeto, my gut says its either Iodine, Potassium or Iron.... Waiting for the ICP to confirm.

Do you have some pictures of the zoas under white lights you can post?

 

[bcarl77]

 

[Thespammailaccount]

Could be bacterial or fungal. Would be a good idea to move those away from healthy colonies. When I have a plug not looking so good I do a furan dip. One pack to one cup of tank water for 10 mins once a day for three days then blast them with flow while they recover