What’s that spot on kole tang ?

[Jay Hemdal]

She’s not at the top today (sorry if I say he and she both but I just decided it’s a female, lol !) and seems pretty much normal.

I wonder if I should make her skip a meal ?

I don't think you need to skip a meal.....

Jay

 

[Idech]

Well, she’s still doing it tonight. This is weird. She ate today, except this morning she started by spitting the food a few times, then not eating, then she ate.

I’m wondering if this is behavioral ?

Here’s a video where we can’t see much because it‘s dark but we can see the swimming pattern. She flees if I use a flashlight. She doesn’t go to her usual cave; is she confused or bothered by something ?

Could it be the peroxyde I was using ?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I’ve never seen peroxide do this. There is a rare issue with a type of micro predator isopods -Cirolanids. They live in the rocks and come out and bite the fish, causing them to hang at the surface, away from them. Unless you have added fresh live rock, that isn’t the issue though.
Jay

 

[Idech]

I’ve never seen peroxide do this. There is a rare issue with a type of micro predator isopods -Cirolanids. They live in the rocks and come out and bite the fish, causing them to hang at the surface, away from them. Unless you have added fresh live rock, that isn’t the issue though.
Jay

I added 6 peppermint shrimps a few days before this behavior started. It was a disaster that ended up in me accidentally dropping some of the LFS water in my tank. It was dirty and full of white matter. I have no idea what it was. My filter was running and I turned on the skimmer.

Last night I saw something running under a rock when I checked with a flashlight. It was a lot bigger than a copepod, at least the ones I usually see. Maybe the size of an ant as per the body.

Could there have been some of those micro predators in the water ? How do I get rid of them ?

Here is a video with more light where you can clearly see the fish, just in case.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

The fish seems to have its mouth stuck open, has it been like that?

Jay

 

[Idech]

The fish seems to have its mouth stuck open, has it been like that?

Jay

I hadn’t noticed, but now that you mention it, it seems like it stays open.

It’s my first tang so it might have been going on for a while and I missed it.

Any idea why ?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I hadn’t noticed, but now that you mention it, it seems like it stays open.

It’s my first tang so it might have been going on for a while and I missed it.

Any idea why ?

Sorry, no. It is a sign of stress, or of injury. Does the tang seem to be breathing fast? Sometimes, when a fish is breathing really fast, the mouth just doesn't have time to close between breaths. Is it still eating today?

Jay

 

[Idech]

Sorry, no. It is a sign of stress, or of injury. Does the tang seem to be breathing fast? Sometimes, when a fish is breathing really fast, the mouth just doesn't have time to close between breaths. Is it still eating today?

Jay

It doesn’t appear to be breathing fast, but the poor fish is very pale. It must be very stressed as it probably hasn’t slept for at least 2 days.

I will be feeding in a few minutes. I’ll report back. I’m very worried and want to relieve his discomfort but not sure how.

I was thinking I’d set up a trap tonight to see if I catch any of those micro predators you were talking about. Since I saw a suspect crawler, it might be a real thing. But if it is, why is the Firefish, who sleeps in the same rock spot, not being bitten ?

eta : I’ve been running a UV and carbon for about 8 days. It’s never been a bother before but could it be part of it ?

 

[Idech]

I just fed and the tang is eating with appetite like it always does. Feeding directly from the pipette and chasing food bits around.

I’ll give an extra feeding today. And remove the UV and carbon for now, just in case.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I just fed and the tang is eating with appetite like it always does. Feeding directly from the pipette and chasing food bits around.

I’ll give an extra feeding today. And remove the UV and carbon for now, just in case.

Can you remind me, why do you want to turn off the UV and remove the carbon?

Jay

 

[Idech]

Can you remind me, why do you want to turn off the UV and remove the carbon?

Jay

Just in case it’s part of whatever is bothering the fish. I’m desperate, lol !

eta : I never run them for long anyways. In this case I was trying to help the tang fight ich if that’s what he had, but he shows no signs of it now.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Just in case it’s part of whatever is bothering the fish. I’m desperate, lol !

eta : I never run them for long anyways. In this case I was trying to help the tang fight ich if that’s what he had, but he shows no signs of it now.

Carbon use can cause HLLE in some fish, but I can’t see any downside to keep running the UV though.
Jay

 

[Idech]

Carbon use can cause HLLE in some fish, but I can’t see any downside to keep running the UV though.
Jay

So would you say the most probable cause of my fish behavior is the presence of cirolanids in the tank ?

I’ve been reading about it a lot and besides that weird thing on the sand, I haven’t seen any on any fish.

I’ll take any advice you have, as this is quite the mystery and I’m at a loss on what to do.

Thanks

 

[Jay Hemdal]

So would you say the most probable cause of my fish behavior is the presence of cirolanids in the tank ?

I’ve been reading about it a lot and besides that weird thing on the sand, I haven’t seen any on any fish.

I’ll take any advice you have, as this is quite the mystery and I’m at a loss on what to do.

Thanks

No - I doubt they are there, I just put that out there as something that can cause these symptoms, but as I mentioned, you'll only see them when you add fresh live rock, especially direct from the ocean.

Jay

 

[Idech]

@Jay Hemdal

So I’m back and the tang is doing worse. It is getting more and more blue specs all over his body and he also has something in his eyes.

The clowns have some kind of white powder on them. You can see it more on the black one, who’s also breathing fast.

We don’t have access to meds in Canada but I have general cure and fenbedazole I believe (in the form of pills, for dogs). I also ordered Prazipro that's supposed to get here around january 3rd but since it’s illegal here, I’m not holding my breath.

So I guess all my fish are going to get sick from whatever this is. And there isn’t much I can do.

TLDR : tang has been showing signs of an unknown disease for at least 4 weeks. It is still eating. Now the clowns are also showing signs of illness. This happened after I mistakingly dropped water from a LFS in my tank when adding peppermint shrimps.

Video mostly showing the tang



Video mostly showing the clowns

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal

So I’m back and the tang is doing worse. It is getting more and more blue specs all over his body and he also has something in his eyes.

The clowns have some kind of white powder on them. You can see it more on the black one, who’s also breathing fast.

We don’t have access to meds in Canada but I have general cure and fenbedazole I believe (in the form of pills, for dogs). I also ordered Prazipro that's supposed to get here around january 3rd but since it’s illegal here, I’m not holding my breath.

So I guess all my fish are going to get sick from whatever this is. And there isn’t much I can do.

TLDR : tang has been showing signs of an unknown disease for at least 4 weeks. It is still eating. Now the clowns are also showing signs of illness. This happened after I mistakingly dropped water from a LFS in my tank when adding peppermint shrimps.

Video mostly showing the tang



Video mostly showing the clowns

For some reason, the videos are really pixelated - that means I can’t confirm or rule out ich.
The tang is looking a bit skinny and the general mottled coloration is indicative of flukes.
Fenbendazole is used by some people for flukes, but the dog tablets may have excipients in them making them unfit for use in an aquarium. I’ve also had random toxicity issues when using it in some species - so I shy away from using it myself. If your pills have an ingredient list and amount of active drug, I can work up a dose for you though.
Can you catch the tang for a FW dip without harming it?
Jay

 

[Idech]

If your pills have an ingredient list and amount of active drug, I can work up a dose for you though.
Can you catch the tang for a FW dip without harming it?
Jay

@Jay Hemdal I tried catching the fish a few days ago but it’s very quick still. Not possible to catch without emptying the tank.

I might be getting Prazipro sooner than I thought. Maybe tomorrow. I want to use it in the tank so I can treat all the fish at once, I’ve read it’s doable. Can you advise on that ?

If not I’ll have to catch the fish one by one when they get sicker and aren’t moving much, and set up a hospital tank.

In case I don’t get the Prazipro, here are pictures of the product I have on hand (Fenbendazole). Do you have the infos you need to calculate the required dosage ?

Thank you so much for your help.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Prazipro would be your safest bet. You need to run any skimmers, but don’t collect the skimmate. You should add a good aeration device. You need to dose for the actual water volume of the tank, not what the tank is rated to hold. I usually deduct 15% for rock displacement. I would turn off any UV for the two days after a treatment. Then, redose the tank 8 days later.
Jay

 

[Idech]

You should add a good aeration device.

I already have a skimmer, an internal filter and a powerhead aimed at the surface. My CO2 levels were 2.5 mg/l according to my ICP test.

Should I also add an air pump on the bottom of the tank ?

Last question : do I dose according to the instructions on the Prazipro package or go slower, as this has been going on for more 4 weeks and the infection is getting more severe ?

Thanks !

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I already have a skimmer, an internal filter and a powerhead aimed at the surface. My CO2 levels were 2.5 mg/l according to my ICP test.

Should I also add an air pump on the bottom of the tank ?

Last question : do I dose according to the instructions on the Prazipro package or go slower, as this has been going on for more 4 weeks and the infection is getting more severe ?

ICP measures elements and CO2 is a compound. Also, CO2 has to be measured in the tank because it changes as soon as you move water out of the tank. I’m not sure what your measurement was of.

I think your aeration should be fine.

I'm not sure what you mean by "go slower" - do you mean with a longer interval between treatment? I usually shoot for 8 or 9 days. In some cases, you need to do three treatments to truly eradicate the flukes though.

Jay