What is Killing All of My Fish?!

[4FordFamily]

I get your point and you're solid on your approach to cure your fish, all I can say is good luck with that.
Maybe there are some folks here that had success with these methods of a in tank treatment that rid off all parasites in your water and on the fish.

I second that. I kill far fewer fish now and my fish populations are not “grenaded” by one new addition with velvet, etc. a few times a year anymore.

 

[cmcoker]

Maybe there are some folks here that had success with these methods of a in tank treatment that rid off all parasites in your water and on the fish.

I feel if that was true, NONE of us would take the time, effort, or cost to quarantine. We would all have a big bottle of "reef safe magic fish cure" and spend our resources on doing/buying fun stuff...

 

[Daltrey]

I read a lot and followed all the advice when I first switched over to salt water. Dipped everything, quarantined everything, never added live rock that wasn't dried first, etc. Lost a lot of marine life in the process, either from the stress of the procedures or the stress in the quarantine tank.
Despite all that, the main tank still got parasites and the reality is once their in their in. Sure, I could get rid of them by going fishless for a couple months, likely losing more fish from the stress of that process. Then, despite my best efforts to re-establish my tank, have the parasites right back in there again. This surely does not seem like a truly practical solution.
That's why I'm looking for an option that is more practical. I've found some options on other websites for treating parasites that claim to be reef safe and am asking for input on those from folks that have tried them.
If you're not a fan of this method, I understand. But I've tried your suggested approach to avoidance and that wasn't effective. So I'm moving on to try something different.
No-one appreciates losing marine life. Not for the cost nor the loss of life, so we agree on that for sure.

Well obviously you seem to have it all figured out. As for everyone else new to the hobby you can either quarantine now, quarantine later or eventually break it all down and sell it. Sorry OP but you are trying to reinvent the wheel. If what you have is velvet, brooklynella or ich then there is only one way to get rid of it. I’m sure you already know the answer to that though.

 

[Brew12]

If you do decide to not take the fish out and try to treat them I would recommend adding a large UV system. That may help keep the parasite levels in check to minimize future break outs. Just make sure you run the flow at a level recommended for parasites, not algae.

 

[sundog101]

Are there any signs before the fish dies? Weight loss or hiding?

 

[kdragon64]

For most of the fish, there were no signs at all.

Recently, I've started hearing some clicking sounds from the tank as well, like five to seven clicks in rapid succession, just randomly every now and then. I have no idea what that is. Don't think it has anything to do with the fish kill, since I haven't been able to recognize it occurring with coincidence to when the fish are dying but figured I'd mention it in case anyone has experienced something similar.

BTW, I'm not sure anyone could get rich off of a reef safe cure or control for parasites, since all the naysayers would poo-poo it so much that hardly anyone would ever try it, and if it didn't work every single time and save every single fish, those same naysayers would hang on those experiencing the worst results as proof it doesn't work, despite the fact that some may have very successful results with the product(s).

With that in mind, I've recently read about some mixed results for people using Ruby Reef's Kick-Ich & Rally in combination. However, that was from a site which is not necessarily reef focused. So, dare I ask here for some responses from anyone that's tried this treatment?

Those that believe removal and quarantine is the only way to go, please refrain from reiterating that fact. I get it that method works for you and you won't accept any other options, but I prefer to keep an open mind. Some of the best discoveries in the world went totally against long held conventional beliefs.

 

[Diesel]

Clicking sound can be a pistol shrimp, now it all depends if this is a magnum or 38 but generally they harmless.

 

[kdragon64]

Thanks Diesel.
I'll keep looking for the source. Now at least I'll have a place/specimen to focus on. It's definitely easier to identify something when you know what your looking for and where to look.

 

[kdragon64]

Thanks Brew for the UV sterilizer recommendation. I will look into that option as well.

 

[MnFish1]

If the fish have no damage - how could a shrimp, etc be responsible?

IMHO people can have varying opinions on 'quarantine' methods - but once fish are sick it seems to me they should be treated appropriately (ie put into another tank and treated with medication). If a person is not willing to treat their fish, they perhaps should not own fish. Im not aware of any treatment for velvet that can be used in a reef tank. I certainly wouldn't add any more fish to that tank until you've dealt with it.

BTW - its possible the velvet was transferred to your tank with your invertebrates - which is why you saw a sudden problem.

 

[kdragon64]

MnFish, I appreciate your opinion, however please realize that the comments about the pistol shrimp were not directed towards the fish kill issue, that was a separate issue in response to my question about the clicking noise.

And as I mentioned before, I've heard and appreciate the quarantine/hospital tank method, and have used that method extensively in the past and still lost a lot of fish. I'm sorry, but anyone that sits on a soap box and says they've never had fish die on them because they are so careful and follow all the prescribed methods is surely lying, delusional or haven't owned a tank for very long.

Thanks again.

 

[Mr. Bill]

...they looked discolored and pale, and some of their remaining color seemed to come off easily on a paper towel after being removed from the tank...

Sounds like they may have spent a few hours in the belly of a nem. How big is your mini carpet? I've seen nems swallow fish 4x their own size, but had to regurgitate it a short time later.

 

[MnFish1]

And as I mentioned before, I've heard and appreciate the quarantine/hospital tank method, and have used that method extensively in the past and still lost a lot of fish. I'm sorry, but anyone that sits on a soap box and says they've never had fish die on them because they are so careful and follow all the prescribed methods is surely lying, delusional or haven't owned a tank for very long.

Thanks again.

And you didn't get my point. I said - people can pick their own quarantine method (that is prevention - whether its keeping them in a separate tank for a week, a month, treating with various medications empirically, or just dumping them in the tank). Once you have clear evidence of a disease in your tank - IMHO a responsible owner will treat that problem. Everyone has had fish die - of course - but to me and its just me - you bought the animals - take care of them. Because I guarantee you - the mortality of velvet is far higher than any quarantine system - and its not treatable in a reef tank. You asked for opinions - but you seem to only want opinions that agree with you. If some of your fish do survive - it would be improper (again IMHO) to add new fish to that tank.

 

[MnFish1]

MnFish, I appreciate your opinion, however please realize that the comments about the pistol shrimp were not directed towards the fish kill issue, that was a separate issue in response to my question about the clicking noise.

Right - and I thought the reason you brought up 'the clicking noise' was because you thought it may be related to your fish deaths (i.e. a mantis shrimp, etc etc). My point was something 'attacking' the fish is unlikely. I would think an anemone would be unlikely to catch so many fish so quickly either.

 

[kdragon64]

Thanks Mr. Bill. Unfortunately, I have to agree with MnFish on the anemone issue, too many too quickly. But, I appreciate your input and will keep that in mind if that seems to be an issue another time. Since finding the lesson on the cardinal, it seems clearly parasite or bacteria related.

 

[xjiang7]

Have you checked for stray current?

 

[Forsaken77]

Thanks Brew for the UV sterilizer recommendation. I will look into that option as well.

Being it's tough to know what you have, it's tough to kniw how to cure it. I have a fish only tank, no corals or inverts (at the time anyway), and treated my display tank with copper for ich. It was a pain because the meds get absorbed by the rock and sand and you have to keep testing to maintain therapeutic levels.

After the treatment was done, you have to use Cupradorb for months, as well as carbon, for the meds leeching back out of the sand and rocks.

That cardinal looks like a fungal infection. Maybe something like Paraguard will work. I don't remember if it treats fungus, but give it a look.

If you have inverts and coral, the safest parasite med is Metroplex and Focus mixed in the food. But they still recommend you remove the inverts from the tank first. If it's just fish, treat away.

 

[Forsaken77]

MnFish, I appreciate your opinion, however please realize that the comments about the pistol shrimp were not directed towards the fish kill issue, that was a separate issue in response to my question about the clicking noise.

And as I mentioned before, I've heard and appreciate the quarantine/hospital tank method, and have used that method extensively in the past and still lost a lot of fish. I'm sorry, but anyone that sits on a soap box and says they've never had fish die on them because they are so careful and follow all the prescribed methods is surely lying, delusional or haven't owned a tank for very long.

Thanks again.

While I gave you advice on medicating the display, everyone else it right. A small QT is the best way to go. Either you overdosed, dosed to fast, mixed meds, had high ammonia, the fish were dying, or something. Because medicating new fish in a QT isn't really that stressful on the fish if done properly. I don't know what went wrong in your QT situation, but it shouldn't be hard at all.

Could you describe what you did for quarantine? Because that may be the issue. Now you have an even worse problem in the display tank, which is a lot harder, and more time consuming to deal with.

 

[kdragon64]

Xjiang, what do you mean by stray current?

Forsaken, Thank you very much. I just looked into Paraguard, may be ok for hospital tank, but not recommended for inverts.

However, Metroplex and Focus can be used without harming coral or inverts according to Seachem and the folks that have used and reviewed it.

Thank you very much again, this looks like a promising way to potentially ward off additional infections. I'm going to give it a try.

This is exactly the type of information I was hoping to find with the help of the reefing community that is willing to keep an open mind and a helpful spirit.

Those that act condescendingly and make derogatory comments suggesting people shouldn't own fish if they don't do everything by their classical methods are doing this hobby a disservice, and negatively affect the atmosphere, rather than promoting open discussions and progress.

BTW, the cardinal is doing fine so far with no treatment. His infected area is almost completely clear of visible infection, and none of the other remaining fish have been affected.

 

[MnFish1]

For most of the fish, there were no signs at all.

Recently, I've started hearing some clicking sounds from the tank as well, like five to seven clicks in rapid succession, just randomly every now and then. I have no idea what that is. Don't think it has anything to do with the fish kill, since I haven't been able to recognize it occurring with coincidence to when the fish are dying but figured I'd mention it in case anyone has experienced something similar.

BTW, I'm not sure anyone could get rich off of a reef safe cure or control for parasites, since all the naysayers would poo-poo it so much that hardly anyone would ever try it, and if it didn't work every single time and save every single fish, those same naysayers would hang on those experiencing the worst results as proof it doesn't work, despite the fact that some may have very successful results with the product(s).

With that in mind, I've recently read about some mixed results for people using Ruby Reef's Kick-Ich & Rally in combination. However, that was from a site which is not necessarily reef focused. So, dare I ask here for some responses from anyone that's tried this treatment?

Those that believe removal and quarantine is the only way to go, please refrain from reiterating that fact. I get it that method works for you and you won't accept any other options, but I prefer to keep an open mind. Some of the best discoveries in the world went totally against long held conventional beliefs.

Everyone on this forum wants a way to treat ich and velvet in a reef tank. Why would we not. There are just no products that are proven to do that. If you have different information please post it asap. Because everyone wants it. In the mean time I wasnt trying to be condescending or rude. This is not about opinion. If there is velvet in your tank there is no option except to take the fish out and treat them or hope they survive and not add any more fish. Again you asked for advice and then say effectively but don’t give me advice I disagree with.

I find your assertion that people quoting science to you are naysayers is impolite and ill informed