What would these numbers make you think?

[ultimatemj]

Oct 1st 2014 my P04 was .05, but I was running a cup and a half of GFO on my 55gtank (70g total volume)...and changing it monthly.

So to try and reduce cost, I put an algae scrubber online October 1st. After 4wks, nothing was growing so I started removing GFO...half, then a week later half more...then a week later the rest.

3 and a half months in, I'm still just getting "slime" growth...

Tank has 90+% good health and growth, but I've had a few things fade and 2 of my main rocks now have a GHA outbreak (that may just be P04 leaching)...and my P04 is up

The 10% not so good health is 3 acans and 2 chalice frags faded to black on me...all the while all the other LPS (including chalices) and SPS are still growing like weeds.

Generally speaking, things are good...just would like them better

Only other change is over the last 6months I have continued to reduce feeding from a cube of mysis a day to 1/4 cube a day. I've continued to do a half dose of reefroids twice a week. The fish have adjusted, but I'm thinking this is related to the acans fading. I've tried weekly spot feeding but the cleaner shrimp come and **** them

Would you wait out the scrubber getting going or put GFO back online? Or other?


And would you increase feeding?

Curious your thoughts~

Thanks!

 

[Reefing Madness]

Got a pic of your ATS set up? Maybe you have something wrong, and thus the reason your scrubber isn't working.
If you were leaving your GFO in the system for a month at a time, and your phosphates were still that high, you should have been changing it out every 2 week. Once its exhausted it will not remove anymore, even though you've left it in the system.
You put new GFO inthe system, test daily, watching phosphates go down, then when it ticks up a notch, remove old GFO and put new in, so this until you have the levels where you want them.

 

[ultimatemj]

Sorry if I wasn't clear...my P04s were .05 but requiring GFO replacement monthly to keep it there.

Thinking I could reduce cost, I put an santamontica hog2 in my sump. Feedback was the GFO was keeping it from getting going...so I started removing GFO. And now P04 has crept up, but the scrubber hasn't "kicked in" yet...instead I got GHA on a couple of base rocks...for the first time ever.

I'm toying with putting GFO back online...but would really like the scrubber to "take over"

 

[Keithcorals]

Phosphate is on the high side but it seems like your low nitrate may actually be the problem. It's becoming more apparent that very low nitrate can be a problem and prevent the breakdown/use of phosphate. Sort of my current fix for all things nutrient related but so far I've had really good results. So if it was me I'd add a little nitrate and see what happens you might be surprised at the results. It helped with my Acans and zoas

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Sorry if I wasn't clear...my P04s were .05 but requiring GFO replacement monthly to keep it there.

Thinking I could reduce cost, I put an santamontica hog2 in my sump. Feedback was the GFO was keeping it from getting going...so I started removing GFO. And now P04 has crept up, but the scrubber hasn't "kicked in" yet...instead I got GHA on a couple of base rocks...for the first time ever.

I'm toying with putting GFO back online...but would really like the scrubber to "take over"

If the phosphate test was accurate at 0.05 ppm, it is not likely limiting the growth of the ATS. Nitrate may be, but it is hard to tell since out kits are not very precise.

I'd personally keep using the GFO if phosphate is rising above 0.05 ppm.

The feeding also sounds fairly meager and I might increase it.

 

[ultimatemj]

A couple weeks later and things are better and worse!

The GFO has (too quickly?) brought the P04 down to .11, but the increased feeding has not budged the N03!

I did get a RedSeaPro No03 test kit and its showing 0.25ppm
​

So the imbalance was concerning me, but worse, I now have a full on GHA outbreak that I need to contain before it gets too far!

And I've recently lost a couple of Acans and chalice frags to what initially appears to be starvation...while target feeding twice a week. :sad:

AND THEN I now also have something very strange going on with my ALK...

I was seeing regular measurements fade between water changes from 155ppm(just under 9dKH) to 135ppm (~8dKH) and so I added kalk to the ATO and things seemed to stabilize at around 150ppm(8.4dKH).
After a few months I noticed my PH going up and up, but was out of ALK reagent...
When my PH hit 8.5 I stopped putting the kalk in the ATO.
Well, my first test with ALK new reagent and I'm now only at 88ppm(just under 5dKH)! I'm puzzled because I've still been doing biweekly 10% water changes.
​

Oh, and the ATS still just sliming...no turf growth yet

Thinking next steps are a 25% water change, calibrate PH probe, retest ALK in both tank and fresh mixed salt water, and measure CAL.

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance for any insights shared!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Not sure why the alk had dropped, but I think the limewater is still a good plan. I'm not sure of the pH 8.55 is accurate, but even if it is, it is not a problem.

Maybe try using 3/4 as much calcium hydroxide in the ATO.

 

[ultimatemj]

Yea, I have strong suspicions the PH Probe is not displaying accurately...

But am I hearing you correctly, you'd just start off by putting MrsWagesPLime back in the ATO?

Any insights on the low N03 with high P04?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yes, I'd go back the the Mrs Wages to help maintain alkalintiy, or choose another method, such as a two part supplement.

I'm also concerned the new alk measurement may not be correct. 5 dKH is pretty uncommon. So don't overreact to it.

I wouldn't worry about the nutrient balance too much except to keep at the phosphate with the GFO. Dosing the nitrate is fine.

 

[ultimatemj]

Thanks.

I performed some new test this morning...

.

API PH test came out around 8.0 and the Apex is displaying 8.1...so not way off.
I did a 10% water change last night and the ALK slightly changed...but within measurement error range.
CAL looks "normal" in the low 400s.
But Mg looks horrible!!! ~850

I didn't have much time left, but I did ALK test the little bit of remaining fresh salt water I had mixed for the water change last night and it only measured 99?!?!? Having 6months of ~140ppm fresh mix, this makes me wonder if my new ALK reagent is off, or if the bottom 1/3 of my salt mix is "inconsistent".

Feeling like I still need more (different tester) testing to confirm what is going on here. I don't want to over react, but there is stress showing in the tank so I need to get things back to looking healthy!

Oh, I did add kalk back into the ATO and tossed 20ml of Kent Tech-M in as a first step. Looking like I may need as much as 65ml a day for a month!:squigglemouth:

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I don't believe 850 for magnesium. It cannot be that low unless you've gone for years in an SPS tank with no additions. Magnesium usually depletes by less than 2 ppm per day, usually much less.

I agree that new alk testing is suspect.

 

[ultimatemj]

Thank you for pointing out the illogical Mg reading...I reread the instructions and there was indeed user error.

It is the amount of titrate USED, not REMAINING. :doh:

​

So, that puts the MG ~1200. Low but not concerning low.

Now onto the strange ALK numbers...

All in all, the reason I'm chasing things is the loss of a couple corals and the stress shown by some of the corals. Not all the inhabitants are unhappy

 

[Skynyrd Fish]

Two things I see. Did you mix your container of salt before using it. I thoroughly mix my mix (lol) before I use it. Also have you made a fresh batch of Salt water and tested it? Sometimes these are overlooked. Can you have a lfs test for alk? Just to check your numbers.

 

[ultimatemj]

Thanks for the feedback.

I generally mix my water a day or two in advance...and even many days in advance when I don't know when I'll get to the water change. I only tested the ALK of a fresh batch today and it was 99ppm....low ALK...as compared to 140ish when I bought the bucket.

My 2 main thoughts are:
1) something is up - I've lost a couple of corals that were doing well and then faded over the last month
2) Yes I stopped using kalk in my ATO, but why would my ALK drift so far? Has to either be the tester or the salt (water changes bringing ALK down)...If the tester, why did I lose a couple acans and a chalice frag?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I can't see a reason alk would drop so far so fast. Maybe your local store can do a double check on the number.

 

[Cory]

On my algae turf scrubber I could only get to grow that algae, then I dozed iron and hair algae grew.

 

[ultimatemj]

Ok, things heading back in the right direction...and fresh mix of RODI and salt measured 143ppm(8dKH). Tank water up 10ppm to 100ppm(5.6dKH).

Seem like a good rate of change?

You can see the saturated kalk in the ATO mini-spiking PH each time it fills

PO4 stopped dropping, time to change the GFO.

 

[ultimatemj]

Last night I performed another 10% water change with fresh mix measuring 143ppm (8dKH) ALK.
This morning the tank is up to 115ppm (6.5dKH)...so still much lower than desired but trending in the right direction.

Beginning to wonder if the root issue was being too aggressive with the GFO (cup and half changed out every couple weeks on a 65gsystem)
Aquarium Chemistry: Effects of GFO (Granular Ferric Oxide) on 'Trace' Metals Concentrations in Artificial Seawater ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I generally wouldn't use water changes to try to boost alkalinity. It is so easy with baking soda.

 

[ultimatemj]

I looked up your(RHF) articles and dosed a tsp of baking soda dissolved in RODI tonight, to raise the ALK a point(getting me to 7+dKH) and take the edge of the kalk rising PH (8.4+). And I'll do another tsp tomorrow. To get me in the 8+dKH range.

The GFO has caught up...to the point I'm in gage error range (0.05). I had to measure multiple times after the first was 0.00 lol

Going out of town Mon, need to get things to 'tank sitter ready' by Mon~