Whats going on with my levels?

[Jcr's Reef]

I have been trying to increase my water parameters over the past week. I am dosing BRS 2 part and using the BRS calculator to boost my levels. So far I'm about a week in of constantly montoring my tank so I can start manually adding it daily. I've been lazy on it since the start of my tank, I even have 3 brand new dosers I have not hooked up yet!, but now that my SPS has grown from frags and I have stopped carbon dosing I would like my alk at 10dkh. I use to just do water changes and my alk levels were usually 7ish, Ca was always 460, and mag hovered @ 1400ish. I'll explain what I need explained to me in the bottom :nerd:.

2-18 first test to see what they were and wanted to know if and how much they were dropping within a few days
Phosphates- 0.04
Alk-7.5
Ca-440
Mg-1400

2-20
Alk-7.5 (added 80 ml after testing)
Ca-420
Mg 1380

2-21
Alk-8 (added 80ml)
Ca-410 (added 200ml)
Mg- didn't test

2-22
Alk-8 (added 200ml w/ a very slow drip)
Ca-420 (added 460ml)

2-23
Alk-8 (added 100ml)
Ca- 420 (added 460ml)

2-24
Alk -9 (added 110ml)
Ca- 420 (added 460ml)
mg-1410

My S.G. is 35ppm and I use API test kits. I know my Alk is usually low bc my Ph was usually at 7.6-7.7. Running Bio-pellets it dropped to 7.3. Its now around 7.9. Everything in the tank is healthy. Check out my homepage if you want to know the stock of it.
My alk is slowly rising, even though I'm adding the dose to bring it up to 10dkh at night, by the next morning when I test its not hitting the mark. The Ca on the other hand really isn't rising at all, even though I have added 460ml for 3 days in a row. I'm already seeing new growth on my SPS, so is the Ca really being consumed this quickly? Seems like a lot for 100g don't you think?

I also tested with 2 test kits and got the same results

 

[Troylee]

Are you testing at the same time every day??? Be sure to always check your mag also if it dips it is terribly hard if not impossible to keep the others in line.... Mag is very important!!!!!! I saw you skipped a few weeks that's why I mentioned it... Also are you testing the sump water or display?? I have noticed results will vary from the 2 different places myself for some odd reason...

 

[Jcr's Reef]

Not really testing at the same time, but the DT lights are on and my test water is coming from the main DT. I haven't touch the mag :squigglemouth:, but being a salifert kit I know its not going to be accurate, but close each time. All of these test were done within a 7 day period. Are they making sense to you? I've never noticed this much fluctuation. I can usually keep my levels right were I want them, sometimes without even trying to, but it seems like the higher my Alk is, the lower my Ca levels drop even though I'm dosing for it (targeting 460)

 

[Troylee]

Ya know to be quiet honest I don't know I have never tested 7 days in a row lol... Best I ever did was once a week and lately it's been over a year...:( bad habits I guess you could call it.... Try Topping off with kalk I bet it would be pretty consistent that way....

 

[Jcr's Reef]

I have kalk but its pretty old lol. I thought kalk and limewater were to maintain levels, not raise them?

 

[Troylee]

It would help stabilize them all.... My tank always did well but when I threw kalk in the mix it was like steroids man my sps took off!!!! I still kick myself for not starting it earlier.... Fwiw it takes a lot of chemicals to raise each one especially mag.... I dumped a whole bottle in one time and it only went up by 40 points lol....

 

[divewsharks]

JCR are you using the BRS 2part to raise your alk/ca? They are good for maintaining, but you are better off using a separate supplement to raise them. Once you get where you want to be, use the BRS 2part to maintain it there. As Troylee mentioned, Mag is very important as well.
Why is your salifert kit not going to be accurate?

 

[VegasRick]

Test Mg, without proper Mg levels you will have trouble maintaining ca alk levels. Have you added any mag? ever? what frequency do you do water changes? 2 part is the same thing as any other supplement you would buy to raise the levels so its perfect for raising them.

You pH is way low, alk plays a big role but can only handle so much especially if its co2 issue. What time of day are you testing pH and have you verified it with another test? For this I would increase the gas exchange, increasing surface flow should help. Its winter and you may have high levels of co2 in your house. Air out the house if possible or maybe pump some fresh air in with an air pump to your tank. Also adding kw helps with co2 issues. kw will convert co2 to carb and bicarbonates (alk usable by your corals). Kw will also help raise your ph simply because at full saturation it has a pH of 12.5

 

[Jcr's Reef]

Yep-2 part to raise- As of yesterday my levels where good, so I'll just have to see what happens.
What do people normally use to raise their levels if they aren't using 2 part?

As for the salifert test- My Mag test gives me different results, even on a back to back test once the Mg-3 solution is about 1/2 gone. I think once the Mg-3 solution gets a little low it allows air to be drawn in through the plastic tip, which would throw my test off slightly. I can never accurately draw the same amount up into the syringe twice.

You can see I was testing the Mag and maintaining a good level. Even without adding any Mag my levels rose slightly

Ph is tested by the Ph probe on the RKE

 

[VegasRick]

People usually use ca chloride to raise ca, the same thing that BRS uses in the ca part of 2 part, and for alk the same thing again as in 2 part. Some commercial buffers include borate, which is not recommended for long time use because borate is not used and will build up over time to give you high reads of alk with very little that is usable by corals
Mg can be a pain to test
You can easily test for co2 issues by aerating a sample and seeing if the ph rises in it

 

[Jcr's Reef]

Will the Co2 mess with my Alk test and give me a lower reading? My Ph probe is in the sump where the ATB is surely aerating most of the water, and a Ph test from the DT shows the same. As long as the low Ph isn't throwing off my levels I don't plan on fixing it. It's just the way my tanks have always run and I have never had any problems from it. When I was running Bio-pellets it dropped all the way down to 7.3 and had no ill effects on anything FWIW

 

[Paul_N]

I used DIY part to raise my Ca and alk levels initially. I have a 140gallon system and was dosing almost 200ml daily (100ml of each in morning and at night) of alk and Ca supplement to maintain levels. It is possible that you are just using that much supplement to maintain.

 

[stedfast82]

I run my mag at 1600 and chalice love me.

 

[Paul_N]

I run my mag at 1600 and chalice love me.

+1
I always run my mag in the 1500-1600 range

 

[divewsharks]

Test Mg, without proper Mg levels you will have trouble maintaining ca alk levels. Have you added any mag? ever? what frequency do you do water changes? 2 part is the same thing as any other supplement you would buy to raise the levels so its perfect for raising them.

You pH is way low, alk plays a big role but can only handle so much especially if its co2 issue. What time of day are you testing pH and have you verified it with another test? For this I would increase the gas exchange, increasing surface flow should help. Its winter and you may have high levels of co2 in your house. Air out the house if possible or maybe pump some fresh air in with an air pump to your tank. Also adding kw helps with co2 issues. kw will convert co2 to carb and bicarbonates (alk usable by your corals). Kw will also help raise your ph simply because at full saturation it has a pH of 12.5

By supplement I mean something concentrated than 2part. It takes a lot of 2part in its typical concentration to raise alk any significant level.

 

[divewsharks]

Yep-2 part to raise- As of yesterday my levels where good, so I'll just have to see what happens.
What do people normally use to raise their levels if they aren't using 2 part?

As for the salifert test- My Mag test gives me different results, even on a back to back test once the Mg-3 solution is about 1/2 gone. I think once the Mg-3 solution gets a little low it allows air to be drawn in through the plastic tip, which would throw my test off slightly. I can never accurately draw the same amount up into the syringe twice.

You can see I was testing the Mag and maintaining a good level. Even without adding any Mag my levels rose slightly

Ph is tested by the Ph probe on the RKE

Which recipe do you use?
Is there a reliable lfs near you that can test your mag? I normally have no problems get consistent results with the salifert mag test, not as easy as my Hanna alk tester, but still doable.

 

[divewsharks]

When you add alk, how soon after are you testing? Do you add alk all at once or spaced? as mentioned before when you test also matters, especially based on how you are adding the components, they will have different consumption rates throughout the day.
My alk/ca are dosed 6 times a day each. Alternating cycles every 4 hours. This helps keep my levels consistent all throughout the day.

 

[VegasRick]

By supplement I mean something concentrated than 2part. It takes a lot of 2part in its typical concentration to raise alk any significant level.

I assumed he was buying the 2 part in powder form and mixing his own.

 

[Jcr's Reef]

Right now I am manually dosing. I'll hooked up the pumps once we move into our new house and in all honesty doing it by hand is no big deal. All dosing is done at night (alk is dripped using recipe 1 w/ 1gallon of water) and testing is done once the lights come on in the morning. I know there are many things that can have an affect or impact on the levels. I have been in the hobby for 10yrs and have had my fair share at skewing numbers...For the past 3-4 yrs I have used the BRS recipe 1, so I don't see a problem using it to raise my alk like I always have and will continue to do so, no offense. All that is required to do so is a little more liquid than the normal dose to raise it. No big deal. If I have to go out an buy another chemical to raise it then neither is cost efficient IMHO and I will look into something else all together. I personally think a 100ml of Alk/Ca is all that is probably needed here to maintain my tank once its dialed in, it'll just take time for everything to come together.

I'm not too concerned about the mag and really don't know why it was ever brought up. I know its important but its not low and hasn't changed value. It stays consistent right around 1400 with only dosing once every couple of months and is the level I have always run it at. Anyone see a good reason to raise it higher? I have also explained why I don't like testing mag. Once the liquid is half gone in the solution bottles, the plastic tip draws air between where the syringe and plastic tip come together. If the bottle is full then its no big deal and doesn't draw air. I have used both salifert and tropic marin and both are the same once the reagent gets low. Push harder on the tip right? lol....As long as its close I'm not concerned about it. I can tell by extracting the liquid a few times to see if the level changes on each draw drastically, then just draw it very slow.

The only thing that has me concerned is my Ca. I was dosing 460ml for 3 days in row and it didnt put a dent in it. It took the 4th day to show an impact on my test (last night it read 460), when according to the BRS calculator all I need was 1 dose of 460ml to bring it up 40pts. My tank is not consuming 460ml daily, nor was it an user error using the test kits because I tested each one twice just to make sure and got the same results each time (except the mag, but as long as it stays between 1380 and 1410 each time I really don't care). So why would my Ca levels drop from 440 down to 410 (i know because I was increasing my alk), but then stay at 420 for 3 days while I was adding 460ml of Ca? Then the following day I add nothing but went ahead and tested it and it read 460? My alk read 9.5 so thats up, but the Ca is what has me stumped....
Since my alk/ca are up now I'm just going to dose them equally and see where they balance each other out, then go from there....Thanks for everyone input

 

[Jcr's Reef]

I also never had any problems before. I stopped carbon dosing for now and want my levels higher. While I was carbon dosing my alk was 7-8, and my ca stayed between 440-460, and mag 1400