When to add a Green Mandarin

[BigHildy53]

My tank has been up for almost six months. Only in the last two months have I added pods from Algaebarn. Eventually I'd like to add a sand sifter such as a Green Mandarin. How do I know when it's safe to add? There being enough of a PODs population.

 

[CodyRVA]

My tank has been up for almost six months. Only in the last two months have I added pods from Algaebarn. Eventually I'd like to add a sand sifter such as a Green Mandarin. How do I know when it's safe to add? There being enough of a PODs population.

I wouldn't consider a mandarin a sand sifter per say, but it's irrelevant. It depends on your setup, you must have a large refugium dedicated to pod reproduction. How many pods did you add? Also keep in mind what other fish will eat your pods. I added a leopard wrasse shortly after a mandarin, and the wrasse simply out competed the mandarin for food and before long the pod population was eradicated, I was constantly adding more pods to keep the mandarin alive... $$$. If you add several thousand pods and a month later you see a steady population, maybe you can consider it, really depends on the population size. Considering your tank size, assuming this is for your 180G, you will have more success as there's simply more volume for the pods to grow.

Shout out to the RVA, where I started in this hobby! :cool:

 

[Tyreef2016]

I waited til around the 1 year mark in my 90 gallon. Added a mandarin pair and they are fatter each day.

Check your rock work at night and see what your pod population is like.

 

[eatbreakfast]

Other tankmates matter for sure. But an established 180 should definitely support a mandy, especially since it's been setup for 6months.

 

[BigHildy53]

I'm contemplating a bonded pair of Biota Green Mandarins from Algaebarn. They supposedly eat frozen food also.

 

[Zack K]

I'm contemplating a bonded pair of Biota Green Mandarins from Algaebarn. They supposedly eat frozen food also.

If you can get your hands on a pair that eat frozen food, it's a win. Specially if you have a population of pods for them to snack during the day.

 

[BigHildy53]

They will be here shortly.

 

[pokerdobe]

Whenever you want. Just teach them to eat frozen. Mandarins are intelligent and can easily be taught to eat frozen.

My original pair used to live in a 20 gallon and now share a 55 gallon with 3 leopard wrasses. Not a single pod to be seen in the display, but all live off a healthy mix of bloodworms, blackworms, lobster roe, and lrs.

-Edit-

I added my mandarins after my Fusion 20 had been up for about 2 months. I rehomed them to my Reefer 250 set up with 100% dry rock 4 weeks after set up. It has now been 2 years since I first got them.

 

[leahfiish]

Whenever you want. Just teach them to eat frozen. Mandarins are intelligent and can easily be taught to eat frozen.

My original pair used to live in a 20 gallon and now share a 55 gallon with 3 leopard wrasses. Not a single pod to be seen in the display, but all live off a healthy mix of bloodworms, blackworms, lobster roe, and lrs.

-Edit-

I added my mandarins after my Fusion 20 had been up for about 2 months. I rehomed them to my Reefer 250 set up with 100% dry rock 4 weeks after set up. It has now been 2 years since I first got them.

I disagree with this, they are smart but you shouldn't rely on them eating frozen. Even if they do, they have fast metabolisms so feeding once a day with frozen might not be enough.

 

[pokerdobe]

I disagree with this, they are smart but you shouldn't rely on them eating frozen. Even if they do, they have fast metabolisms so feeding once a day with frozen might not be enough.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the aspect of them eating frozen. I think it's far more reliable to train them onto frozen, so you are not dependent on a volatile pod source. For example, I had to QT my fish for ich once, with a fallow period of 76 days. Because they were trained on frozen, and a wide variety at that, I didn't have to go out and dump pods day after day after day. If they did not eat frozen, there was a much higher chance they would have perished in my temporary holding/QT tank.

In addition, I went with the hypo solution. There was no guarantee that pods would have survived in a hypo environment.

I do agree with frequency of feeding. If it makes you feel any better, I feed at a minimum of 3x a day. They are fat and in spawning condition, with the female constantly with eggs.

-Edited for grammar and spelling

 

[leahfiish]

We'll have to disagree on the aspect of them eating frozen. I think it's far more reliable to train them onto frozen, so you are not dependent on a volatile pod source. For example, I had to QT my fish for ich once, with a fallow period of 76 days. Because they were trained on frozen, and a wide variety at that, I didn't have to go out and dump pods day after day after day. If they did not eat frozen, there was a much higher chance they would have perished in my temporary holding/QT tank.

In addition, I went with the hypo solution. There was no guarantee that pods would have survived in a hypo environment.

I do agree with frequency of feeding. If it makes you feel any better, I feed at a minimum of 3x a day.

Well I do agree that you should try to get them to eat frozen, it is definitely better in case your pods run out (or you have to qt them) but I don't agree that it's easy to get them to eat frozen. If they are eating frozen, that's great and definitely beneficial, but you shouldn't buy mandarins when you don't have enough pods and expect them to eat frozen. Because sometimes they never will.

 

[pokerdobe]

Well I do agree that you should try to get them to eat frozen, it is definitely better in case your pods run out (or you have to qt them) but I don't agree that it's easy to get them to eat frozen. If they are eating frozen, that's great and definitely beneficial, but you shouldn't buy mandarins when you don't have enough pods and expect them to eat frozen. Because sometimes they never will.

I'm definitely not saying that you should just buy them and simply expect them to eat frozen, hence, the part required to train them.

Granted, I have only ever had 3 mandarins (first male had to be re-homed due to incompatibility with female), but I have had success training all 3 of them onto frozen. I didn't simply throw them into the tank with frozen lol. I trained the female with live brine, to dead brine. From dead brine, it was an easy transition to bloodworms. Larry's took a while longer. Then I found lobster roe, which ended up being my go to weapon of choice for training onto frozen, for any picky fish (it was what I used to train both males and to get all my leopard wrasse and anthias to start eating).

-Edit-
I will say, I've yet to successfully train any mandarin onto pellets. :(

 

[CodyRVA]

You shouldn't buy mandarins when you don't have enough pods and expect them to eat frozen. Because sometimes they never will.

+1

 

[leahfiish]

I'm definitely not saying that you should just buy them and simply expect them to eat frozen, hence, the part required to train them.

Granted, I have only ever had 3 mandarins (first male had to be re-homed due to incompatibility with female), but I have had success training all 3 of them onto frozen. I didn't simply throw them into the tank with frozen lol. I trained the female with live brine, to dead brine. From dead brine, it was an easy transition to bloodworms. Larry's took a while longer. Then I found lobster roe, which ended up being my go to weapon of choice for training onto frozen, for any picky fish (it was what I used to train both males and to get all my leopard wrasse and anthias to start eating).

-Edit-
I will say, I've yet to successfully train any mandarin onto pellets. :(

Yes, but training them takes time (it can take months or never happen at all) and you have to be prepared with foods on hand and a good pod population already in the tank in case they don't immediately take to the frozen foods. In your original post you make it sound like a piece of cake, as if you could just put them in a tank that's been setup for a month with dry rock and have them eating frozen mysis immediately, and I felt that was misleading.

 

[pokerdobe]

Perhaps it's just different methods of approach. I've never purchased a mandarin with the sole intent to let them live off pods in my tank, so I was determined to train them. None of the mandarins I've purchased have ever taken longer than a week or so to be trained onto at least one frozen foods. Call it luck? Or maybe food choice?

I'm just basing it off my experience and what's worked for me. The first time I was nervous and thought it would also take months. Imagine my surprise when using live brine to acclimate to frozen took less than a week.

Here's what I think went right for me:

-I chose my first mandarin very carefully. Anecdotal reading suggested that female mandies are easier to train, so I waited until my lfs had a relatively fat, female mandarin.
-I had prepared a variety of frozen beforehand
-Once the female was trained, I personally believe that my subsequent mandarins learned by watching her. In effect, my first trained mandarin helped "train" my new mandarins.
-Lobster roe. Or Nutramar OVA. My third mandarin was trained to frozen by the 3rd day on this stuff.
-Smaller tank: Being that all my mandarins were trained in a 20 gallon, I think the smaller space allowed me to give the focus and attention to the mandarins, instead of losing them in a massive tank.

I'm not trying to be combative, I'm just suggesting alternative methods to the traditional "mandarins only eat pods, without pods, they die" mentality. This discourages individuals with nano tanks from attempting these pretty fish as they get the impression the ONLY way to keep mandarins is to have a 150+ gallon tank for just one mandarin, which frankly, I do not think is true. There's another forum with a thread where dozens of people have trained their mandarins to eat frozen.

Yes, but training them takes time (it can take months or never happen at all) and you have to be prepared with foods on hand and a good pod population already in the tank in case they don't immediately take to the frozen foods. In your original post you make it sound like a piece of cake, as if you could just put them in a tank that's been setup for a month with dry rock and have them eating frozen mysis immediately, and I felt that was misleading.

 

[Empress]

Humblefish just announced that Marine Depot has Nutramar in stock. Mandarins are supposed to love that stuff.