Who says I can't get a bunch of tang in my 42 gallon reef tank?

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Ballyhoo

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i think my new love for reef tanks and sea creature has changed my perspective on the value of life in the anime kingdom in general. But there is that cursed thing known as the food chain.. maybe our Tangs do better in 41 tanks than they do in open Hawaiian oceans where they could be eaten by sharks etc.
but then again in the open ocean , their lives are as intended.
 

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What’s happened is your eyes have been opened to the processes behind what it takes to get a fish from point A to B, whether it’s your LFS, your aquarium, or your plate. And you have begin to personify fish, and see their colors and personality, and developed empathy and now see them as pets and companions instead of a just a sushi roll.

I think you are having a moment of yawakening where you are learning about something previously ignored. I still eat sushi, I still eat crab, I still buy wild caught fish. I just try not to think about it and if I buy a fish and it’s gone though hell to get to me, then I’m gonna make sure I do my best to give it a clean home, space to move around easily, be well fed, safe, and comfortable.
 
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What’s happened is your eyes have been opened to the processes behind what it takes to get a fish from point A to B, whether it’s your LFS, your aquarium, or your plate. And you have begin to personify fish, and see their colors and personality, and developed empathy and now see them as pets and companions instead of a just a sushi roll.

I think you are having a moment of yawakening where you are learning about something previously ignored. I still eat sushi, I still eat crab, I still buy wild caught fish. I just try not to think about it and if I buy a fish and it’s gone though hell to get to me, then I’m gonna make sure I do my best to give it a clean home, space to move around easily, be well fed, safe, and comfortable.
yes, that and also let's face it. Well what I think is reefing is also an Art and with an art there's a value and philosophy behind that, a certain dignity we give whether it is to the fish in our tank or the oil pastel on our brush to canvas. Now I just don't see value to this art in having a tang in a small tank. It's kind of strange. I think midsize tanks are so cool. I don't even want large tank anymore. that might change I can't predict the future and LFS has some breathtaking species, etc. in large tanks yet There's so much to do and 40 gallons so much biodiversity you can put in them I'm not sure bigger is always better, unless you really want tangs and those really cool eel looking like creatures that I'm not sure what they're called
 

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yes, that and also let's face it. Well what I think is reefing is also an Art and with an art there's a value and philosophy behind that, a certain dignity we give whether it is to the fish in our tank or the oil pastel on our brush to canvas. Now I just don't see value to this art in having a tang in a small tank. It's kind of strange. I think midsize tanks are so cool. I don't even want large tank anymore. that might change I can't predict the future and LFS has some breathtaking species, etc. in large tanks yet There's so much to do and 40 gallons so much biodiversity you can put in them I'm not sure bigger is always better, unless you really want tangs and those really cool eel looking like creatures that I'm not sure what they're called

I hear you on the art perspective, and bigger is not always better. It’s different and can be appreciated in its own way

For example, my 1.1 gallon pico. This small of a tank means you can see things right up close instead of looking through a bunch of water

616F687C-02BD-4041-BDD2-4019E3E9EA45.jpeg
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The yellow tip torch became too large and I replaced with a banana torch

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407A2663-400F-4BED-B314-3CEE5E9BA9CD.jpeg
 
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I hear you on the art perspective, and bigger is not always better. It’s different and can be appreciated in its own way

For example, my 1.1 gallon pico. This small of a tank means you can see things right up close instead of looking through a bunch of water

616F687C-02BD-4041-BDD2-4019E3E9EA45.jpeg
59FB64F3-5A74-44D0-9DBC-F8400FD1C48C.jpeg


The yellow tip torch became too large and I replaced with a banana torch

09368145-F47F-433C-814E-229D157F1995.jpeg
407A2663-400F-4BED-B314-3CEE5E9BA9CD.jpeg
certainly those are not all 1.1 gallon tanks? If they are, I'm gonna get me a few micro nano tanks. ("pico") ?
 

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certainly those are not all 1.1 gallon tanks? If they are, I'm gonna get me a few micro nano tanks. ("pico") ?

It’s all the same tank over the last few months. I set it up in Feb and have a build thread on it I keep up to date

If your interested:
 

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Is this a genuine question? Yeah, no "reef gods" are striking HIM dead but in a couple months that'll be the case for those tangs unless they get rehomed. I had a 5 inch tomini tang in a 65 gallon and it was incredibly stressed out from the lack of swimming space. A 42 gallon with a blue tang is just too little. They need at least double that size, preferably more.

Think about it practically --> Adult Blue tangs typically get a foot long. A usual 40 gallon breeder is 3-3.5 feet long. Tangs are known for being active, an extra two feet of swimming room is just going to kill the poor thing. Plus all that rock and coral.
It's a beautiful tank, but he must not have cats. Also, some of those fish are banging against the glass- that can't be good.
 

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Tang police have always had me befuddled. Claim can't keep in a certain size tank because they roam the reefs in herds yet know of no one that has replicated that type of expanse in home aquaria including Polo. Reminds me of boa keepers telling me I must keep all boas in 8' x 4' cages regardless if male or female because they read it on the web yet question my 30 plus years collecting and actually breeding them. :thinking-face:

Not saying any large tang should live it's life out in a box of 40 so gallons but I'm also not just assuming another doing exactly that. Know this much. Plans are to have an 8' x 4' box because I've always wanted a school of powder blues and fact is that's probably not big enough but that's all the room I've got although could stretch it to 12 long and not seeing how if 8 not big enough somehow 12 will get'r done. Yet those will be purchased small and kept together in a small grow out 24' cube until convinced they are established. I doubt 2" fish will get stressed to the point they dial out to the police. :rolling-on-the-floor-laughing:

Problem with the web being all too easy to just make wild assumptions and hit send. I had a recent run of that and it wasn't fun. I'm going to assume until told otherwise these are temporary quarters because I doubt one in the hobby that long going to keep that which don't fit in an 8 foot tank inside a fraction of it. If I'm going to assume. Perhaps assume positively ;)
 

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I love surgeon fish. They are at least 50% of why I got into salt tanks, Zoa's being the other 50% probably, lol.
I have a 12" Blonde Naso Male, 5" Naso Female, 4" Blue Hippo, 4" Sailfin, 3" Skopas, 3" Clown, 5" Vampire, and 6" Chocolate Mimic. Along with a 6" Skat and 6" Rabbitfish.

Just recently added the Mimic and he took over the Vampire's territory. This has my Vampy stressed way out, but he is starting to settle down again. Found himself a new spot to sleep etc. it's an 8ft tank 300g.


If you love Tangs, and most of us do, but you have a smaller tank, why not look at the Pygmy Angel, and Lemon peel Angel fish. I feel those are awesome alternatives to smaller tanks.
 

BeanAnimal

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Tang police have always had me befuddled. Claim can't keep in a certain size tank because they roam the reefs in herds yet know of no one that has replicated that type of expanse in home aquaria including Polo.
If one wants to be that obtuse and pedantic about it, sure. Why not put them in a fish bowl?

The point is that there is a line somewhere and many people clearly cross that line, even if the line itself is fuzzy and there is no enforcement.

We have the extremes of never taking a fish out of the vast ocean and putting fish in tanks that they can't turn around in. There is plenty of area in between and there is certainly a reasonable line somewhere if one decides to actually keep a given species of animal.


Reminds me of boa keepers telling me I must keep all boas in 8' x 4' cages regardless if male or female because they read it on the web yet question my 30 plus years collecting and actually breeding them. :thinking-face:
You can keep them in a shoebox too... is it right? Just because you CAN do something does not mean it is right, moral or acceptable even if (again) there is no enforcement. Your "experience" means nothing in this context.

I'm going to assume until told otherwise these are temporary quarters because I doubt one in the hobby that long going to keep that which don't fit in an 8 foot tank inside a fraction of it. If I'm going to assume. Perhaps assume positively ;)
You assume positively - the world is full of self serving blissful and willful ignorance... the blissful type is fixable (thus the "tang police"), the willful not so much ("it's my tank I can do what I want and you Tang Police people are idiots, my fish are HAPPY!!").
 

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If one wants to be that obtuse and pedantic about it, sure. Why not put them in a fish bowl?

The point is that there is a line somewhere and many people clearly cross that line, even if the line itself is fuzzy and there is no enforcement.

We have the extremes of never taking a fish out of the vast ocean and putting fish in tanks that they can't turn around in. There is plenty of area in between and there is certainly a reasonable line somewhere if one decides to actually keep a given species of animal.



You can keep them in a shoebox too... is it right? Just because you CAN do something does not mean it is right, moral or acceptable even if (again) there is no enforcement. Your "experience" means nothing in this context.


You assume positively - the world is full of self serving blissful and willful ignorance... the blissful type is fixable (thus the "tang police"), the willful not so much ("it's my tank I can do what I want and you Tang Police people are idiots, my fish are HAPPY!!").
My experience means everything. Might not to you or others but I've actually experienced something others might just be regurgitating what told being my point and we do put babies in shoe boxes. Perfect analogy to 2" tangs in 40g yet my adults go in appropriately sized for sex, size and age. Internet doesn't know better than me on that because of my valued experience that those less knowing might want to follow vs dismissing. Perhaps don't be so dismissive unless you've walked in my shoes and know my life.

You didn't get my point on being assuming of positive vs negative. I'm not some dimwit who thinks all or are good. My point being. If you've got nothing nice to say. Best not say it. Web would be a better place. Constantly arguing opinionated thoughts is futile and leads to little benefit because then we end up shouting at each other. I tell no other how to live. Best they show the same respect vs jumping to conclusions. Although it is the net. Nothing stopping one from being rude and thinking they know what's best for all concerned.

BTW, who's talking about fish bowls although I'm sure there's one big enough to house a 2" anything and I'd do it although already thinking ahead for when it out grows that bowl. Context matters.

As you mentioned. We are taking fish out of the ocean and in that regard I feel we all live in glass houses yet often throw stones. That irony is lost on most.
 

BeanAnimal

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My experience means everything. Might not to you or others. Internet doesn't know better than...Perhaps don't be so dismissive unless you've walked in my shoes and know my life.
If we each had a penny for every person who said "I've been doing it this way for 30 years..." who is clearly doing whatever it is wrong, we would all be rich.

When you post something for other's to comment on, you will get opinions on what you posted. Your experience means something to you. Your actions mean something to those observing you. You may be right or wrong depending on who is observing and what you are doing. It is what it is.

You didn't get my point on being assuming of positive vs negative. I'm not some dimwit who thinks all or are good. My point being. If you've got nothing nice to say. Best not say it.
I don't know about anybody else, but I did not call you anything. Anyway, I didn't miss your point, I just don't particularly agree with it. I don't believe that we should all bite our tongues when/if we see something that we feel is out of place and especially when that something is presented for comment. Dissent and being unkind are two different things.

As for opinions and arguments, they are essential aspects of conversation and furtherance of understanding and information. If we don't question things, or each other, then we stop advancing.

Have nice day.
 

stewy14

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in answer to your question : nobody..you can put whatever YOU like in there ..forget the tang police
but remember the actual police and us being able to report people for animal abuse

if its a long 45 I guess sure, cuz they got room, but not a cube, not big enough
 

CO2TLEY

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Even if we are making the comparison with house pets, you don’t get a Great Dane or any other similar sized dog and put them in an apartment. Thats not to say there isn’t someone out there that does this, there should be some self reflection about what is right and what is wrong
 

Doctorgori

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Im not a huge fan on rehoming but would rather keep the stress to a minimum…
- Another thing is those schools of tangs you see on a natural reef actually have hundreds of gallons of water in between them…it’s a optical illusion as the entire scale is off: the scene is larger and the fish are bigger
- I also think the fishes actual potential size is grossly underestimated…I’ve seen tangs in the wild, they get eating size easily
- exercise/ swimming room is under rated also, tang police or not, I wouldn’t want to be in a 4x4 jail cell and expected to be healthy at the same time
 

GARRIGA

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Some math. 2” fish in a 15g tank would have 24” of swimming space length wise, 12” back to front and some 30” diagonally. Same fish full grown at 12” would require minimum 6x that 15 to have the same room to roam and due to being also taller and wider might be actually 50x bigger. Saying that 2” don’t fit in a 15 but somehow fits in a 300 isn’t logical.

Threw a dozen plus 2” hippo tangs into a single 15 where’s they were previously each in individual 15s and what used to be fish hiding behind standpipes became a group that didn’t mind customers approaching including those who thought tapping glass was fun. Actual experience from 30 years ago.

Seems insane to me we concluded X gallons bad yet I know of one large public aquarium with whale sharks and lots have orcas in what equates to kiddy pools compared to the ocean they were from.

Outside of not keeping. We do the best we can. Know this. Once my build gets within six months of completion. I’ll start seeking my school of powders. In a tang police not approved box they go. Because experience tells me it can :)
 

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Some math. 2” fish in a 15g tank would have 24” of swimming space length wise, 12” back to front and some 30” diagonally. Same fish full grown at 12” would require minimum 6x that 15 to have the same room to roam and due to being also taller and wider might be actually 50x bigger. Saying that 2” don’t fit in a 15 but somehow fits in a 300 isn’t logical.

Threw a dozen plus 2” hippo tangs into a single 15 where’s they were previously each in individual 15s and what used to be fish hiding behind standpipes became a group that didn’t mind customers approaching including those who thought tapping glass was fun. Actual experience from 30 years ago.

Seems insane to me we concluded X gallons bad yet I know of one large public aquarium with whale sharks and lots have orcas in what equates to kiddy pools compared to the ocean they were from.

Outside of not keeping. We do the best we can. Know this. Once my build gets within six months of completion. I’ll start seeking my school of powders. In a tang police not approved box they go. Because experience tells me it can :)
You might be irked at some of the sanctimony with the whole tang police thing…I get it…
All I’m saying is there are practical limits to anything …buying a Idol for a 20gal with thought of rehoming isn’t gonna be the best reefing decision you make..
Also, tangs with good diet and space grow dang fast: my small Atlantic Blue is now easily a “large” 6 mos later
And trust me, I’ll eat a fish before I let one suffer LOL
 

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You might be irked at some of the sanctimony with the whole tang police thing…I get it…
All I’m saying is there are practical limits to anything …buying a Idol for a 20gal with thought of rehoming isn’t gonna be the best reefing decision you make..
Also, tangs with good diet and space grow dang fast: my small Atlantic Blue is now easily a “large” 6 mos later
And trust me, I’ll eat a fish before I let one suffer LOL
I'm all about reducing stress but that fish has been rehomed several times before ending up in our tanks. Fact is it likely went into QT at our place and having it sit in a 40 for an extended period might not be the worse its experienced. The entire industry based on fish moving constantly. Plus if one has an already established monster tank that little fish may not be best suited until it gets some meat on it's bones. Just looking at the fact there are no hard and fast rules yet we tend to provide as with those telling me all boas need an 8ft long cage which is farthest from the truth.
 

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I'm all about reducing stress but that fish has been rehomed several times before ending up in our tanks. Fact is it likely went into QT at our place and having it sit in a 40 for an extended period might not be the worse its experienced. The entire industry based on fish moving constantly. Plus if one has an already established monster tank that little fish may not be best suited until it gets some meat on it's bones. Just looking at the fact there are no hard and fast rules yet we tend to provide as with those telling me all boas need an 8ft long cage which is farthest from the truth.
Yeah in fact even if the fish is in the same tank, new additions add stress. And that whole thing with Killer whales at Sea world that are essentially in a swimming pool, is real….but they also can murder their handlers in protest o_O
Added: and have !!

You do make a point about a fishes size in relation to the tank, I can only say tangs like to make long “runs” for no apparent reason other than they can, I would think someone needs to give em enough tank length so they can at least get up to speed
 

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