Why 2-part NO3 Suppliment?

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CMO

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I'm a big user and believer in Triton products but I'm a bit confused by the complexity of the NO3 supplements offered in two separate parts which also requires N-Doc testing to know the appropriate dosing levels. I dose quite a bit of Nitrate regularly on my Triton reefs and currently use Brightwell NeoNitrate instead of Tritons NO3 offerings given these complexities. My concerns are as follows:

1) I have my Nitrate dosing set up on an automatic doser and find it unreasonable to require 2 dosing heads to dose nitrate. Can the two parts be combined and stored / dosed together?
2) The Nitrate supplement comes in tiny bottles which isn't the most convenient quantity for storing in reasonable sized dosing reservoirs. I also have very long dosing lines and I'd have nearly an entire bottle of this stuff (100ml) just in my lines. Can I dilute it and multiply the recommended dose by the dilution factor?
3) Quite frankly, I already run regular Triton ICP tests and find it unreasonable / too costly to run yet another set of regular tests for nutrient levels. If I never plan to use N-doc, how am I to potentially use your nitrate supplements since no dosing levels are provided otherwise?

I'd like to stick to a single brand if possible, but really wish Triton offered a simpler Nitrate dosing solution.
 

Reefahholic

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I checked my NO3 today and have been keeping it between 5-10 and it was already 0. Yikes! So I dosed to bring it up to 1 and will continue to dose each night until I get it back to my desired range.

PO4 was down to 0.02 which for me is getting into the danger zone. I prefer 0.05 or higher to give me a little wiggle room. I know I know you get better colors with very low PO4, but my colors are good enough at 0.05.

Anytime I see a surge in growth the corals suck it up like crazy. I could have NO3 sitting at 10 and PO4 at 0.2 and it will be gone in a few days. I have looked back at my notes and each time I see my alkalinity demand spike.... the nutrients bottom out and I need to dose to keep them detectable.
 

Julian@Triton

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1) I have my Nitrate dosing set up on an automatic doser and find it unreasonable to require 2 dosing heads to dose nitrate. Can the two parts be combined and stored / dosed together?
2) The Nitrate supplement comes in tiny bottles which isn't the most convenient quantity for storing in reasonable sized dosing reservoirs. I also have very long dosing lines and I'd have nearly an entire bottle of this stuff (100ml) just in my lines. Can I dilute it and multiply the recommended dose by the dilution factor?
3) Quite frankly, I already run regular Triton ICP tests and find it unreasonable / too costly to run yet another set of regular tests for nutrient levels. If I never plan to use N-doc, how am I to potentially use your nitrate supplements since no dosing levels are provided otherwise?

I'd like to stick to a single brand if possible, but really wish Triton offered a simpler Nitrate dosing solution.

NH Alpha and NO Beta are never to be used together.

Answers to your questions are as follows:

1) NH Alpha is for increasing N concentration when there are no preexisting issues and an aquarist just wants to boost nutrient levels to the corals.
NO Beta is to be used to increase the N concentration and correct the N : C : P ratio when there is an issue (eg. Algae or Cyanobacteria bloom)

2) It can be diluted in RO/DI water

3) If you are dosing without N-DOC lab testing better to use NO Beta as it is more forgiving and you can use the following to help guide you:

NO Beta
1ml in 100L will do the following:
Raise N - 0.022mg/l
Raise NO3 - 0.1mg/l
 
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Thanks for the response. So what do you mean by more forgiving exactly? My need is more in line with what you described for NO Alpha as I have no algae issues and dose to keep nutrients up for coral growth / color. What might be some of the consequences of over dosing NO Alpha? Thanks
 

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NH Alpha and NO Beta are never to be used together.

Answers to your questions are as follows:

1) NH Alpha is for increasing N concentration when there are no preexisting issues and an aquarist just wants to boost nutrient levels to the corals.
NO Beta is to be used to increase the N concentration and correct the N:C:p ration when there is an issue (eg. Algae or Cyanobacteria bloom)

2) It can be diluted in RO/DI water

3) If you are dosing without N-DOC lab testing better to use NO Beta as it is more forgiving and you can use the following to help guide you:

NO Beta
1ml in 100L will do the following:
Raise N - 0.022mg/l
Raise NO3 - 0.1mg/l

Julian, why would I want to dose Nitrogen to my aquarium? First time I've heard this. Are you referring to Nitrogen as NO3 which is a dissolved form of Nitrogen? I can understand Nitrate dosing if this is what you're referring to when you say Nitrogen.

Are the products above (NH Alpha and NO Beta) essentially being dosed to add Nitrates back into the system or is one used as Nitrates/Carbon source.?
 

Julian@Triton

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Thanks for the response. So what do you mean by more forgiving exactly? My need is more in line with what you described for NO Alpha as I have no algae issues and dose to keep nutrients up for coral growth / color. What might be some of the consequences of over dosing NO Alpha? Thanks

NH Alpha is higher in energy and more aligned with Ammonia therefore it can be more dangerous to dose.

A slight overdose of NH Alpha could lead to an increase in algae and/or bacterial growth in your aquarium. A large overdose could have much more serious consequences like with any supplement.

Julian, why would I want to dose Nitrogen to my aquarium? First time I've heard this. Are you referring to Nitrogen as NO3 which is a dissolved form of Nitrogen? I can understand Nitrate dosing if this is what you're referring to when you say Nitrogen.

Are the products above (NH Alpha and NO Beta) essentially being dosed to add Nitrates back into the system or is one used as Nitrates/Carbon source.?

When we say Nitrogen we do not mean Nitrate.

NO3 contains Nitrogen (N) and this is what N-DOC measures. We do this because of the variety of forms of N in seawater (eg NH3, NH4, NO2, NO3, amino acids, proteins....etc.). So measuring NO3 and dosing will not give you the full picture of N consumption or availability. While a N measurement shows you the N bound in all of the forms listed above.

Just adding NO3 is not the best way to manage nutrients in your aquarium as it is not readily usable by most animals unlike Ammonium could be. But just adding Ammonium would also cause problems. With N-DOC we found a way to measure the concentration of N and give people the ability to dose accordingly.

Unfortunately you cannot measure NO3 with an ICP-OES lab machine. Even measured using an IC machine the sample could change to one of the other forms of Nitrogen in transit giving false readings. NO3 has always been just a surrogate test for Nitrogen as it was the best option we had in the past. Now days N-DOC in combination with a good NO3 home test kit gives us a much cleared picture of our nutrient levels.
 

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NH Alpha is higher in energy and more aligned with Ammonia therefore it can be more dangerous to dose.

A slight overdose of NH Alpha could lead to an increase in algae and/or bacterial growth in your aquarium. A large overdose could have much more serious consequences like with any supplement.



When we say Nitrogen we do not mean Nitrate.

NO3 contains Nitrogen (N) and this is what N-DOC measures. We do this because of the variety of forms of N in seawater (eg NH3, NH4, NO2, NO3, amino acids, proteins....etc.). So measuring NO3 and dosing will not give you the full picture of N consumption or availability. While a N measurement shows you the N bound in all of the forms listed above.

Just adding NO3 is not the best way to manage nutrients in your aquarium as it is not readily usable by most animals unlike Ammonium could be. But just adding Ammonium would also cause problems. With N-DOC we found a way to measure the concentration of N and give people the ability to dose accordingly.

Unfortunately you cannot measure NO3 with an ICP-OES lab machine. Even measured using an IC machine the sample could change to one of the other forms of Nitrogen in transit giving false readings. NO3 has always been just a surrogate test for Nitrogen as it was the best option we had in the past. Now days N-DOC in combination with a good NO3 home test kit gives us a much cleared picture of our nutrient levels.

Interesting. I would never just add NO3 though. My corals get a buffet of nutrition.

So, with N-DOC you can see NH3 (ammonia), NH4 (ammonium), NO2 (nitrogen dioxide), and NO3 (nitrate), Amino Acids, Proteins, etc. Say I send off the N-DOC test....will it tell me the current availability and where my availability should be? How do you determine the appropriate availability? I think this would vary depending on the goal you're trying to achieve. Most Acropora guru's will have very limited nutrients. So of course a lot of these guys will have tests come back saying their nutrient availability is low. Especially the Zeovit guys. Well, this does interest me for one reason...I'd rather not sacrifice coral health to achieve the pick color on the JF Home Wrecker. That's just me though. I like my corals to be healthy even if that means I'm running at 0.2 PO4 and 10-20 NO3. Do you have some N-DOC test results that you can post up. I wanna see an example of the corrective actions.

BTW, I just ordered more Core7.
 

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NH Alpha is higher in energy and more aligned with Ammonia therefore it can be more dangerous to dose.

A slight overdose of NH Alpha could lead to an increase in algae and/or bacterial growth in your aquarium. A large overdose could have much more serious consequences like with any supplement.

Ohh gosh...this is not gonna be good. :D
 
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So how might Bio Base ULNS overlap with what we are talking about here - or is that all together different? Would dosing Bio Base ULNS be an option for what I'm trying to accomplish with sodium nitrate dosing currently (coral coloration, growth and fuel for macro algae fuge wich takes my NO3 to 0 absent dosing)? If I understand correctly the Bio Base product contains N and P in appropriate ratios, so mostly N, and also now in a single supplement?

I think I'll at least run an N-doc test to help understand all of this.
 
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Ohh gosh...this is not gonna be good. :D

Why is this any different to any supplement that you dose? Slight overdoses will have a negative affect and large overdoses will have serious consequences.

We at TRITON recommend dosing these supplements based on N-DOC lab tests to be assured that you are accurately managing your nutrients. If anyone chooses to dose blindly or based on their home tests then they ultimately decide if the benefit is worth the risk.
 

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Why is this any different to any supplement that you dose? Slight overdoses will have a negative affect and large overdoses will have serious consequences.

We at TRITON recommend dosing these supplements based on N-DOC lab tests to be assured that you are accurately managing your nutrients. If anyone chooses to dose blindly or based on their home tests then they ultimately decide if the benefit is worth the risk.

I agree.
 

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So how might Bio Base ULNS overlap with what we are talking about here - or is that all together different? Would dosing Bio Base ULNS be an option for what I'm trying to accomplish with sodium nitrate dosing currently (coral coloration, growth and fuel for macro algae fuge wich takes my NO3 to 0 absent dosing)? If I understand correctly the Bio Base product contains N and P in appropriate ratios, so mostly N, and also now in a single supplement?

I think I'll at least run an N-doc test to help understand all of this.

Bio Base sounds like a product I’d be really interested in. I’d like to learn more about it.
 

Julian@Triton

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So how might Bio Base ULNS overlap with what we are talking about here - or is that all together different? Would dosing Bio Base ULNS be an option for what I'm trying to accomplish with sodium nitrate dosing currently (coral coloration, growth and fuel for macro algae fuge wich takes my NO3 to 0 absent dosing)? If I understand correctly the Bio Base product contains N and P in appropriate ratios, so mostly N, and also now in a single supplement?

I think I'll at least run an N-doc test to help understand all of this.

Definitely a good to start to carry out an N-DOC lab test and get an accurate read on your nutrient concentrations. If there are no pre-existing issue (cyanobacteria, dinoflagellate or algae blooms) and you have an ultra low nutrient system then Biobase ULNS is the optimal way to maintain the balance between N, C and P as it is designed according to the TRITON ratio.
 
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Definitely a good to start to carry out an N-DOC lab test and get an accurate read on your nutrient concentrations. If there are no pre-existing issue (cyanobacteria, dinoflagellate or algae blooms) and you have an ultra low nutrient system then Biobase ULNS is the optimal way to maintain the balance between N, C and P as it is designed according to the TRITON ratio.
Okay sounds good. I have an n-doc ordered so I'll go from there. FWIW though, my PO4 seems to naturally stay in the range of .02-.1 which I somewhat control with my fuge light length. I don't like to go over 0.1 PO4 for sps coloration so it'll be interesting to see if I can use the bio-base product without boosting PO4 too much while still registering NO3.

Thanks
 

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My N-DOC test, measured High levels of Nitrogen but my NO3 is Zero on red sea test kit. (I double checked this test kit with other new test)


I run Biopellets Reactor 24hrs a day, maybe the biggest Nitrogen source are on living bacteria on water?
Should I dose Nitrate + Should I reduce the media inside my biopellet reactor?
 

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My N-DOC test, measured High levels of Nitrogen but my NO3 is Zero on red sea test kit. (I double checked this test kit with other new test)


I run Biopellets Reactor 24hrs a day, maybe the biggest Nitrogen source are on living bacteria on water?
Should I dose Nitrate + Should I reduce the media inside my biopellet reactor?

No, we would not recommend adding Nitrate. Your N levels are already too high and adding Nitrate would only increase this.

Please read the attached tech paper to explain how Nitrogen can exist in many forms within your aquarium.
 

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Julian@Triton

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I'm a big user and believer in Triton products but I'm a bit confused by the complexity of the NO3 supplements offered in two separate parts which also requires N-Doc testing to know the appropriate dosing levels. I dose quite a bit of Nitrate regularly on my Triton reefs and currently use Brightwell NeoNitrate instead of Tritons NO3 offerings given these complexities. My concerns are as follows:

1) I have my Nitrate dosing set up on an automatic doser and find it unreasonable to require 2 dosing heads to dose nitrate. Can the two parts be combined and stored / dosed together?
2) The Nitrate supplement comes in tiny bottles which isn't the most convenient quantity for storing in reasonable sized dosing reservoirs. I also have very long dosing lines and I'd have nearly an entire bottle of this stuff (100ml) just in my lines. Can I dilute it and multiply the recommended dose by the dilution factor?
3) Quite frankly, I already run regular Triton ICP tests and find it unreasonable / too costly to run yet another set of regular tests for nutrient levels. If I never plan to use N-doc, how am I to potentially use your nitrate supplements since no dosing levels are provided otherwise?

I'd like to stick to a single brand if possible, but really wish Triton offered a simpler Nitrate dosing solution.

I appreciate you posting up this thread as there remains a lot of confusion with the purpose and application of our nutrient range (P Alpha, P Beta, NH Alpha and NO Beta). Ultimately it is TRITON's responsibility to remedy this situation. We hope to get more information out in the following months and shed light on the application and subsequent benefits of these products. Hopefully the following explanation helps to remedy this situation to some degree.

P Alpha and P Beta are both designed to increase your Phosphorous (P) levels. NH Alpha and NO Beta are both designed to increase your Nitrogen (N) levels. You should only be using one of the P or one of the N products at any time. There would be no situation where NH Alpha would be used together with NO Beta and the same with P Alpha and P Beta. There is a chance that you could feed your system with P Alpha and NH Alpha but usually this is not the case. Biobase would be a better alternative in this situation.

The following applies to both the N and the P products:
Alpha is more reactive (potent) and is to be used when there are no pre-existing issues (eg. Cyanobacteria blooms, nuisance algae, Dinoflagellates) while Beta is less reactive and is recommended when there are already pre-existing issues. The use of Alpha when there are pre-existing issues will only exacerbate the problem.

All of these products are ideally used in conjunction with TRITON ICP and N-DOC lab test results to precisely determine the ratio of N, C and P present in the aquarium. From these reading, dosages can be calculated to correct any imbalance according the the research TRITON has conducted in this area (see tech paper attached to the last post). Additional support/information can be gained through sending an email to TRITON Support ([email protected]).

I hope this information helps to clear up some of the confusion and look forward to any questions you might have in relation to nutrient management in the reef aquarium.
 
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I read carefully the document you post here, and understood all the background, but I din't found a solution for my High Nitrogen on D-DOC test.

TnB Total Nitrogen - 1,38 (n-doc)
My NO3 = 0,00 PPM (red sea domestic test kit)
My NH4 = 0,007 PPM (seneye sensor)

So where is my high nitrogen? Bacterias? proteins? What i need to do to solve this problem.
-I turned off my biopellets reactor to recuce organic carbon to reduce bacterias, to reduce (not NO3) nitrogen on water... is this correct?

_____________

This is the solution on the Help Menu at Triton Website:

We have found an elevated level of Nitrogen.

This can have the following disadvantages for your aquarium:

- May increase the chances of Cyanobacteria
- May favour nuisance algae growth
- Can lead to darkening of coral colours

If you use the TRITON method:

1. Increase the photoperiod over the algae refugium (do not exceed 14 hours illumination), check performance of algae light (we recommend T5 lighting)
2. If you are not yet using TRITON BioBase and your TOC is in the lower range, you can start with the dosage

If you use a different system:

Consider revising your chosen filtration method.

Please contact us for further support on [email protected]

______________

Revise my filtration? But my no3 = zero...

NDOC.PNG GRAPHICS.PNG
 

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I would also reduce fish food by 20% (almost everyone overfeeds).
Better/more efficient skimming.
Reduce coral foods, aminos and bacterial supplements.
 

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