Why cant u keep sps?

[NeutronMan]

I had the same thoughts on using fws for that same purpose but was going to try wormwood alone to see if I got similar results. Fws defiantly helped the corals that were not affected by the worms when I used it.

What effects did you see on the unaffected corals?

 

[Roberto Denadai]

20 years ago nobody cared about bacteria. I still don´t care and I still use GFO with my po4 0,02-0,04 and no3 = 0.

Today there are so many products and stuffs that a lot of people just don´t know what they are doing anymore, just buying and dosing a lot of things.

20 years ago everybody was using HQI, a good Skimmer, Ca reactor, GFO and water changes and a lot of people was very successfully

I believe that people have lost their power to question and evaluate what makes sense and what doesn't

I still follow the rule : keep it simple as possible

Just my two cents

Cheers

 

[ScottB]

20 years ago nobody cared about bacteria. I still don´t care and I still use GFO with my po4 0,02-0,04 and no3 = 0.

Today there are so many products and stuffs that a lot of people just don´t know what they are doing anymore, just buying and dosing a lot of things.

20 years ago everybody was using HQI, a good Skimmer, Ca reactor, GFO and water changes and a lot of people was very successfully

I believe that people have lost their power to question and evaluate what makes sense and what doesn't

I still follow the rule : keep it simple as possible

Just my two cents

Cheers

I won't disagree as I was not in the hobby 20 years ago. But I will ask this one question:

Twenty years ago, how many people were successfully keeping acropora? I have never met one of these people. I would like to though.

 

[Roberto Denadai]

I won't disagree as I was not in the hobby 20 years ago. But I will ask this one question:

Twenty years ago, how many people were successfully keeping acropora? I have never met one of these people. I would like to though.

A lot of people. Here in Brazil we had many sps keepers using the same method 15 / 20 years ago.

 

[ScottB]

A lot of people. Here in Brazil we had many sps keepers using the same method 15 / 20 years ago.

I will say I have seen many amazing acro reefs from reefers in Brazil in the last few years. Some are absolutely incredible.

I too run "simple" systems but they don't always behave the same for many months or even years. I use GFO on my aged system, but have to dose nutrients to my newer ones so I am happy to explore and learn how to narrow my "age" gap in keeping simple and stable systems.

Do you start with "dead" or "live" rock on your tanks?

 

[Roberto Denadai]

Do you start with "dead" or "live" rock on your tanks?

All dead

 

[greekspec2]

anyone tried this product from Tunze?
https://www.tunze.com/US/en/details/0220.005-care-bacter.html

I've been using Tropic-Marin Nitribiotic for awhile and don't get any diom or cyano

 

[Hyde2406]

Yes I get what you're saying and understand where you're coming from with starting this thread. I think it's well known that real live rock is the greatest thing in the world for a reef tank. But this is 2019 and options are nil as far as that goes. I remember working at the lfs in the 90s and we'd receive boxes of fiji or Jakarta or live rock from where ever that was just covered in life, and some dead from the journey lol. But today it's all dry rock with 100 different bottles on the store shelves. Again no real question, just discussing.
Thanks
Side note, being in Canada we are even more limited rock wise I believe. Even Tampa Bay rock would be a great option.

Tampa Bay saltwater sells man made rock that's been in the gulf for a long time, great diversity on those rocks!

 

[DesertReefT4r]

Real live ocean rock is still available. Yes the days of old reefing with rock from far away places is gone, but real ocean rock is still available.

Yep fiji rock is in stock here sold per lbs
https://fragtasticreef.com/saltwater-aquarium-filtration/

 

[nick0206]

20 years ago nobody cared about bacteria. I still don´t care and I still use GFO with my po4 0,02-0,04 and no3 = 0.

Today there are so many products and stuffs that a lot of people just don´t know what they are doing anymore, just buying and dosing a lot of things.

20 years ago everybody was using HQI, a good Skimmer, Ca reactor, GFO and water changes and a lot of people was very successfully

I believe that people have lost their power to question and evaluate what makes sense and what doesn't

I still follow the rule : keep it simple as possible

Just my two cents

Cheers

Hey.
I’m not 20 years, but 15 in a hobby, but even then, for the initial new tank, at least everyone recommended taking either a little water from a old tank, or live rocks, or live sand to initial the cycle.
After that, the tanks matured, sometimes up to several months before something could be planted there.
During this time, much has changed. We mean aerobic and anaerobic bacteria that do all the work of denitrification of water. There are a large number of species of such bacteria.
Different systems use different types of bacterial strains and, accordingly, and their nutrition.
At the same time, the launch time of the tank was also reduced. Instead of long months of maturation (bacterial reproduction), today you simply add bacteria and food for them.
For example, Korallenzucht offers the launch of a new tank within 2 weeks.

https://www.korallen-zucht.de/pages-en/service/initial-cycle-just-14-days.html
From here comes a wide variety of related products on the shelves of our LFS.

 

[nick0206]

U mean phosphate right? Sps need phosphate to grow but they dont uptake phosphate as good as nitrate. In the other hand bacteria eat phosphate better than nitrate. So to complete the cycle bacteria consume phosphate, coral eat bacteria therefore eat phosphate.

Controversial statement. There is no phosphate in any system on the zeolites at ULNS (Korallenzucht, Aquaforrest etc). I have had a Korallenzucht system for 3 years. The test always was 0,00 (Hannah). Then how do all SPS grow?

 

[ScottB]

Controversial statement. There is no phosphate in any system on the zeolites at ULNS (Korallenzucht, Aquaforrest etc). I have had a Korallenzucht system for 3 years. The test always was 0,00 (Hannah). Then how do all SPS grow?

U mean phosphate right? Sps need phosphate to grow but they dont uptake phosphate as good as nitrate. In the other hand bacteria eat phosphate better than nitrate. So to complete the cycle bacteria consume phosphate, coral eat bacteria therefore eat phosphate.

Perhaps you are both saying the same thing. In a bacteria fortified system, the phosphate is consumed quickly and efficiently by the bacteria. If you run ULNS it is consumed completely.

So this is where it gets hard for me. It would require a big mindset shift for me to be comfortable with a zero PO4 reading running a bacterial approach. It goes against what I have been taught in the last decade (and my dino experiences of the last year).

 

[ycnibrc]

Controversial statement. There is no phosphate in any system on the zeolites at ULNS (Korallenzucht, Aquaforrest etc). I have had a Korallenzucht system for 3 years. The test always was 0,00 (Hannah). Then how do all SPS grow?

Just like algae when u test phosphate at zero it doesn’t mean your water is at zero 24 hrs. Its just mean they are low. Phosphate is always in the water your sps will eat some , your algae will eat some and the rest your bacteria will eat some. Now a tank dosing zeovit will be low in phosphate compare to another tank that dont dose zeo. Not all zeovit tank is low on phosphate i control my dosage and feed more so my po4 level is 1.0

 

[ycnibrc]

Perhaps you are both saying the same thing. In a bacteria fortified system, the phosphate is consumed quickly and efficiently by the bacteria. If you run ULNS it is consumed completely.

So this is where it gets hard for me. It would require a big mindset shift for me to be comfortable with a zero PO4 reading running a bacterial approach. It goes against what I have been taught in the last decade (and my dino experiences of the last year).

My po4 is 1.0 and no3 is 10ppm. I control my dosage and feed more. U dont have to follow their dosage guidelines. U dose what best for your tank. Many reefer fail at zeovit because they just calculate 1 drop per 25g and dose however their tank need more or may be less.

 

[Surfzone]

I just keep it simple and keep some PO4 and NO3 in the system. As long as I detect it I dont stress it.

 

[ycnibrc]

20 years ago nobody cared about bacteria. I still don´t care and I still use GFO with my po4 0,02-0,04 and no3 = 0.

Today there are so many products and stuffs that a lot of people just don´t know what they are doing anymore, just buying and dosing a lot of things.

20 years ago everybody was using HQI, a good Skimmer, Ca reactor, GFO and water changes and a lot of people was very successfully

I believe that people have lost their power to question and evaluate what makes sense and what doesn't

I still follow the rule : keep it simple as possible

Just my two cents

Cheers

20 years ago u dont need to dose bacteria because u have live rock from the ocean and furthermore even if u want to dose there are none :-)

 

[ycnibrc]

Lets go back to the original topic which is find out why a lot of reef tank lately have problem with keeping sps even though their parameters is perfect. I list the 10 most common questions below but if all are good then whats next
1)Whats your parameters
2)what kind of light/light schedule?
3)what kind of pump and flow?
4)keep alk, ca and mag stable
5) ICP test
6)nitrate/phosphate level
7)water change
8)feeding
9)copper/iron over dose aka magnet rust
10)salt

The common symptoms are new tank everything is good for 6mon to a year then declining sps can survive for a few months then start dying.
If the above 10 common diagnosis are good then whats next

 

[Kayvon]

I'd say if all those are good then the next thing would be pests

 

[ycnibrc]

I'd say if all those are good then the next thing would be pests

Pest will kill your sps if leave uncheck but they take longer time to kill your corals. U might see brown out or less polyps extension from the base. A lot of mature tank running fine with pest since if the corals is strong and big they will still survive but dont have nice color

 

[NeutronMan]

How about letting nitrate and phosphate swing? Does that have the same effect as alkalinity swinging?

My tank can take nitrate and phosphate to zero very quickly. If each day I dose 2ppm nitrate, and it’s zero by morning, is that harming corals?

My algae problems are what I believe to be sucking down the nitrate and phosphate.