Why cant u keep sps?

[EMeyer]

ive said it plenty of times in this thread that most of us, including Anthony, feed a ton to our fish. i even pointed out that Anthony feeds his fish 8-10 times a day when he himself didn’t even mention it.

Wait, what?? I'm doing really good if I remember to feed once a day. Somebody is really feeding 8+ times a day?

I have a feeling that might explain more than all the other factors put together

 

[Graffiti Spot]

I have seen much better results feeding frozen foods and the like rather than feeding pellets. I have been feeding pellets for a while and once I started feeding frozen foods I could see a slight difference in coral health. Could be coincidence but I believe the food makes a huge difference. Again I will point to the blu coral method.

 

[Silent]

I have no doubt much of Anthony's success is related to his experience. Just by the way he states to start off with lower doses and adjust slowly for best results as he has with his system lets you know fine tuning things only comes with knowing your system.

 

[Daddy-o]

There is nothing in that Zeobak description that isn't already in any healthy system

I think you hit the nail on the head. A healthy system should contain some bacteria already. We are looking at causes for an unhealthy system and lack of bacteria could be a piece to the puzzle.
Cheers! Mark

 

[LARedstickreefer]

Nothing wrong with some experimenting. I like to try things that aren’t mainstream, which is why I’m giving this a go, for now.

So far, many of my corals that looked to have gone past the point of no return, during the “happening” are in “recovery mode green”. The new corals that missed the “happening” are keeping their colors, PE, and are slowly encrusting.

The “abomination algae” is very slowly subsiding. It had taken over the entire tank! Now it has stopped its advance and has lost its hold on 25% of the rocks; just vanished.

I dose, via doser, Tropic Marin All for Reef (for alk, calcium, and magnesium) and Tropic Marin Plus NP (for phosphate).

I’ve now begun dosing Zeobak, Zeostart, and Zeofood. I have also begun upping my feeding of frozen foods as nitrates still read zero (dern algae can’t go away fast enough). Phosphate is sitting at 0.06ppm.

I’m going to start dosing Flatworm Stop also just as a coral health booster.

Once all of these bottles run out (I’ll keep the All for Reef), I’ll see if I can keep things going with just food alone.

 

[Big E]

I am glad you have been very successful with your acros and your post does make sense, but you are not the recommended reefer the OP is considering to take this thread into consideration. I believe this thread is for the reefer with no other viable reason their sps are not doing as well as they think they should. If all else fails, try bacteria.

Maybe I didn't explain myself well............more fish, hence more food input = more ammonium, urea, waste and also a larger bacterial population to process everything. It's all tied together.

Here's another explanation that may help...... Two 100g tanks have the same exact P04 and N03 test results. One has starving corals, slow growth and poor coloration with a 3 fish population. The other has 8 fish and great color and growth. The through put of nutrients is much higher with 8 fish so there is more bacteria, nutrients, ect for the corals to consume.

The only other way to fix the 3 fish tank may be to reduce export, but it's much easier to add more fish and also more fun.

I just went through this with a friend of mine for the second time with him as he got back into acros after a few years.
Our test readouts were almost the same but he was feeding his fish every other day and small amounts of mysis.

I've seen this same scenario over and over again through the years. I've helped many people with this issue and it always goes into not enough nutrient throughput.

The big and only difference is that I know what I'm putting in my system. The bottle contents of a commercial bacterial products is unknown. It's also very easy for the companies to say anything and convince you with marketing psychobabble and claims of success.

You want to create a balance not continually rip everything from the system only to have to put it back in.

 

[sensei]

Maybe I didn't explain myself well............more fish, hence more food input = more ammonium, urea, waste and also a larger bacterial population to process everything. It's all tied together.

Here's another explanation that may help...... Two 100g tanks have the same exact P04 and N03 test results. One has starving corals, slow growth and poor coloration with a 3 fish population. The other has 8 fish and great color and growth. The through put of nutrients is much higher with 8 fish so there is more bacteria, nutrients, ect for the corals to consume.

The only other way to fix the 3 fish tank may be to reduce export, but it's much easier to add more fish and also more fun.

I just went through this with a friend of mine for the second time with him as he got back into acros after a few years.
Our test readouts were almost the same but he was feeding his fish every other day and small amounts of mysis.

I've seen this same scenario over and over again through the years. I've helped many people with this issue and it always goes into not enough nutrient throughput.

The big and only difference is that I know what I'm putting in my system. The bottle contents of a commercial bacterial products is unknown. It's also very easy for the companies to say anything and convince you with marketing psychobabble and claims of success.

You want to create a balance not continually rip everything from the system only to have to put it back in.

Ed,

I have a 90g quarantine tank that I used to run fishless. I have 4 yellow tangs in that tank now. I only have tangs since I just wanted utility fish in qt tank. The color of acropora improved a lot with the addition of fish, however it is still not great but it is not bad either; growth is very good. How would I know if I need more fish in that system??
Thanks

 

[ScottB]

Ed,

I have a 90g quarantine tank that I used to run fishless. I have 4 yellow tangs in that tank now. I only have tangs since I just wanted utility fish in qt tank. The color of acropora improved a lot with the addition of fish, however it is still not great but it is not bad either; growth is very good. How would I know if I need more fish in that system??
Thanks

The answer varies by system. For mine, if bioload versus nutrient extraction leaves behind > .05 PO4 and > 10 NO3 over time, I have reached my sweet spot. If not, I slowly tweak one or the other to return hereabouts.

 

[Big E]

Jorge,

That fish load is plenty if your feeding them well and a diverse diet.

The numbers are in the ballpark as well. Throughput should be ok.....I also keep an eye on the tank glass and how often it gets hazy. Usually in 2-3 days I have a film I have to clean off.

There are other considerations for example your type of export system and lighting.

In a setup like that I usually monitor each coral as it may need lowering or raising or maybe to a section with better flow.

 

[SeaDweller]

so... has anyone noticed any improvement if they started adding in some bottled bac or what?

 

[minus9]

I noticed a difference when I started to carbon dose with Tropic Marin Elimi-NP, then Bacto-Balance. Things were not growing and coloring like they should and my PO4 & NO3 weren't crazy out of range, but once I got them to NSW levels, everything changed and started to grow and color up. I only dosed for a month and a half, but now stopped since things have been holding steady. This is the first time that I've ever used dry rock in a reef tank before (I used about 25lbs of fiji LR from my 22g when I upgraded to my 90g, the rest was dry rock) and I've never had so much trouble keeping things stable.
I've also picked up some old LR from a local reefer who is moving and will add that to my sump to add more biodiversity.
I'll never set up another tank without ocean rock again, it's not worth it to me. I really miss the 90's for that reason alone. It's much easier to deal the pests that come with live rock, then start with dry rock and wait forever.

 

[LARedstickreefer]

so... has anyone noticed any improvement if they started adding in some bottled bac or what?

I have noticed that my massive algae outbreak is slowly losing its grip, literally. This stuff wouldn’t brush off rocks nor could I scrape it off the back and bottom glass. It’s now just coming off in small clumps and floating away...

The rocks that I was able to remove and peroxide are staying completely clear of algae.

Snails are now showing an interest in the algae also.

Before adding the zeobak and zeostart, the algae was taking over new surfaces weekly.

I’m not willing to try stopping the bacteria yet

Corals that had gone to deathly brown went to bright green much faster than they ever have done in the past and are now showing hints of their old colors again.

 

[Daddy-o]

This whole conversation has kinda made me re-think the way I run my reefs.
Cheers! Mark

 

[LARedstickreefer]

Anyone notice that their skimmer overflows no matter how wet or dry it’s set? My skimmer has little water in the cup, yet keeps blowing its top.

 

[SeaDweller]

Anyone notice that their skimmer overflows no matter how wet or dry it’s set? My skimmer has little water in the cup, yet keeps blowing its top.

it's skimming all the bacteria, yo. I had to empty mine regularly when I was dosing. ALOT of skimmate. My wife always complained that the area "smelled like sewer".

 

[LARedstickreefer]

it's skimming all the bacteria, yo. I had to empty mine regularly when I was dosing. ALOTof skimmate.

I’ve got nothing to empty. With the cup off, it makes a huge mess too. Like a giant worm coming out and going everywhere.

 

[SeaDweller]

I’ve got nothing to empty. With the cup off, it makes a huge mess too. Like a giant worm coming out and going everywhere.

oh snap, thats with lid ON? add any new filter socks? Or just coincidentally after dosing?

 

[LARedstickreefer]

oh snap, thats with lid ON? add any new filter socks? Or just coincidentally after dosing?

Its 24/7 like this now. That’s the Lid on. Lid off it’s 3 times worse.

 

[Daddy-o]

I have no issues. I am adding Zeo Start, ZeoBak, Bio-Digest, MicroBacter7, and carbon dosing
Cheers! Mark

 

[Sold4jc7]

@ycnibrc I saw this post yesterday and thought this could be a help understand the bacteria present in your tank.

AquaBiome: Can Reefers Benefit from an ‘ICP Test’ for Bacteria?

AquaBiome is a new company that is offering a novel kind of water test for our reef aquariums, one that gives some practical measurement and analysis of the microbiology of our captive reef ecosystems. Just like ICP opened the door to understanding water chemistry beyond the mineral and organic...

www.reef2reef.com

I wonder if it would reveal a larger population of certain bacteria strains based on what bacteria products are used.